3 ms·

> we have reached peak oil, so we're slowly edging towards the threshold at which extracting oil will consume more oil than it produces. How does that follow?

by creer 2y ago

rfrey 2y ago
Because as oil reserves are depleted, oil is extracted from more and more difficult places. Deeper wells, less porous rock, etc. these new sources require more energy to extract the same amount of oil.
- creer 2y ago
  More ENERGY needed. Which doesn't have to be oil. Oil is extracted by businesses which pay attention to their bottom line - and so would not, could not, will not use significant amounts of oil to extract comparable oil. Even as you consider current truck mounted prospecting, gas or generator powered drilling, crew vehicles, refineries, all the way to supertankers - these exist BECAUSE the ratio of usage to production is extremely favorable - and not through some fatality. Causality goes the other way: a worsening ratio necessarily causes a switch to other methods.
  - Yoric 2y ago
    > More ENERGY needed. Which doesn't have to be oil. Fair enough, I was using oil as the unit of energy.
Yoric 2y ago
Because, if my memory serves, that's the definition of peak oil. Peak oil is the peak of the curve `energy extracted/energy expended to extract it`. Since 2017, this has been decreasing. *edit* I realize that the definition of peak oil I've been using (which I believe I've found in the writings of Jancovici) is apparently not the standard definition. My bad.
- creer 2y ago
  I feel one thing that few bother to understand is that it would be extremely hard to arrive at "no more oil", even if humanity somehow made a good faith effort to get there. There is oil all over the place on earth. It's not necessarily oil that's economical to extract, even by today's XXX (pick your term) corporations. There is also energy all over the place (again that might not be economical or politically correct to extract right now.) The result of this is that if NNN years in the future you need oil for some worthy reason (say, you need more Legos :-), you can collect and spend the energy and get the oil. That's not an issue.

> we have reached peak oil, so we're slowly edging towards the threshold at which extracting oil will consume more oil than it produces. How does that follow?

by creer 2y ago

> we have reached peak oil, so we're slowly edging towards the threshold at which extracting oil will consume more oil than it produces. How does that follow?

rfrey 2y ago

Because as oil reserves are depleted, oil is extracted from more and more difficult places. Deeper wells, less porous rock, etc. these new sources require more energy to extract the same amount of oil.

creer 2y ago
More ENERGY needed. Which doesn't have to be oil. Oil is extracted by businesses which pay attention to their bottom line - and so would not, could not, will not use significant amounts of oil to extract comparable oil. Even as you consider current truck mounted prospecting, gas or generator powered drilling, crew vehicles, refineries, all the way to supertankers - these exist BECAUSE the ratio of usage to production is extremely favorable - and not through some fatality. Causality goes the other way: a worsening ratio necessarily causes a switch to other methods.
- Yoric 2y ago
  > More ENERGY needed. Which doesn't have to be oil. Fair enough, I was using oil as the unit of energy.

Yoric 2y ago

Because, if my memory serves, that's the definition of peak oil. Peak oil is the peak of the curve `energy extracted/energy expended to extract it`. Since 2017, this has been decreasing. *edit* I realize that the definition of peak oil I've been using (which I believe I've found in the writings of Jancovici) is apparently not the standard definition. My bad.

creer 2y ago
I feel one thing that few bother to understand is that it would be extremely hard to arrive at "no more oil", even if humanity somehow made a good faith effort to get there. There is oil all over the place on earth. It's not necessarily oil that's economical to extract, even by today's XXX (pick your term) corporations. There is also energy all over the place (again that might not be economical or politically correct to extract right now.) The result of this is that if NNN years in the future you need oil for some worthy reason (say, you need more Legos :-), you can collect and spend the energy and get the oil. That's not an issue.