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Nvidia Responds to F-Bomb From Linus Torvalds

24 points by marcieoum 14y ago

nodata 14y ago
To be fair, Nvidia's "response" is pathetic. Come on Nvidia! Proper response!
sixbrx 14y ago
I just wish nvidia would show how to keep the video card from running balls to the wall all the time, without installing their blob which can break for kernel updates. That way I won't have to avoid nvidia cards for laptops. Surely they could do this without enabling their competition to crush them.
sp332 14y ago
The complete text of the response makes a few good points. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=184564 http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=184564 By using the same binary blob on all platforms, they have Linux support on day one for every update across all their hardware, the same driver version number across all platforms, and all extensions supported on Windows work just the same on Linux. On the other hand, that doesn't excuse their stonewalling of the Nouveau project.
- ajross 14y ago
  Nor does it really explain their inability to support the native mode switching API, or video acceleration framework, or their own hybrid configurations. Windows has that stuff too, and it works "on day one" there.
adventureful 14y ago
Linus acted like a petulant child with the fuck you nVidia bit.
- sophacles 14y ago
  And nVidia acted like a condescending adult with their "Listen to what we say we care about, and ignore our actions" response. Thus the cycle continues.
- dreadsword 14y ago
  Linus did lose some credibility in my eyes. Not that one needs to conduct themselves like a suit at all times, but his behaviour seemed counter-productive at best.
  - fdr 14y ago
    I don't think his behavior was at all out of the ordinary there for Linus, so if he lost credibility for you I don't understand why this would be only after this event. We'll see if it ends up being counter-productive after all, or if the public naming of nVidia as a bad actor causes them to shore up support even a tiny bit. His reaction certainly will make me reconsider an nVidia card for my next Linux machine: I didn't realize there was so much ire beyond the frustration that nVidia ships a binary blob. As-is things didn't seem to be going anywhere, and there were no signs that nVidia was at all unhappy with that situation.
  - IsTom 14y ago
    As far as I know Linus' attitude is well-known.
mnazim 14y ago
I know it's off topic, but isn't the article wrong when it mentions: > "Torvalds created Linux in 1991 as an open source alternative to Microsoft Windows" Linus wanted to run Unix on his desktop. I don't think Linus has ever said that "alternative to Windows" was the goal.
- talmand 14y ago
  That's the way I've always understood it. If he had wanted an alternative to Windows then it stands to reason it would look and operate more like Windows. Plus it would probably have been named something like Lindows, which someone eventually did.
  - mnazim 14y ago
    Also didn't Windows actually start gaining the majority share only after 95 release, I am not sure about it though.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      Majority share of what? MS Dos was popular on many desktops. CP/M was used on some weird systems (especially word processing); other forms of dos (PC dos, dr dos) were available but not nearly as popular as MS Dos. ("Dodgy" licensing deals were available then.) Windows 3.1 was very popular version of Windows. Windows for workgroups introduced some 32bit kludges. Since these are not operating systems I guess they don't count. But what was competing with them? GEM? Some Norton commander thing?
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        3.1 was very popular at that time. Macs were also more common, although their popularity was eroding. If you wanted Unix you'd probably run it on a 680x0 or RISC box. We all thought RISC would be the future. Linux started in the 386 era. By then, Microsoft owned the PC space. CP/M was a distant memory.
- tarre 14y ago
nicholassmith 14y ago
It was a totally expected, prepared, reasonable and truthy response that'll still not make people happy because it's not what they want. People need to stop assuming companies are there to make them happy, they're there to do what makes them happy and makes money.
runjake 14y ago
See the previous discussion from when this was submitted a few days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4132931 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4132931
gvb 14y ago
"While this may not please everyone, it does allow us to provide the most consistent GPU experience to our customers, regardless of platform or operating system." Consistent is not the same as good.
jason_slack 14y ago
Linus gives the finger at 49:50 but the conversation a minute or so before leads up to it.

24 points by marcieoum 14y ago

To be fair, Nvidia's "response" is pathetic. Come on Nvidia! Proper response!

I just wish nvidia would show how to keep the video card from running balls to the wall all the time, without installing their blob which can break for kernel updates. That way I won't have to avoid nvidia cards for laptops. Surely they could do this without enabling their competition to crush them.

sp332 14y ago

The complete text of the response makes a few good points. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=184564 http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=184564 By using the same binary blob on all platforms, they have Linux support on day one for every update across all their hardware, the same driver version number across all platforms, and all extensions supported on Windows work just the same on Linux. On the other hand, that doesn't excuse their stonewalling of the Nouveau project.

ajross 14y ago
Nor does it really explain their inability to support the native mode switching API, or video acceleration framework, or their own hybrid configurations. Windows has that stuff too, and it works "on day one" there.

adventureful 14y ago

Linus acted like a petulant child with the fuck you nVidia bit.

sophacles 14y ago
And nVidia acted like a condescending adult with their "Listen to what we say we care about, and ignore our actions" response. Thus the cycle continues.
dreadsword 14y ago
Linus did lose some credibility in my eyes. Not that one needs to conduct themselves like a suit at all times, but his behaviour seemed counter-productive at best.
- fdr 14y ago
  I don't think his behavior was at all out of the ordinary there for Linus, so if he lost credibility for you I don't understand why this would be only after this event. We'll see if it ends up being counter-productive after all, or if the public naming of nVidia as a bad actor causes them to shore up support even a tiny bit. His reaction certainly will make me reconsider an nVidia card for my next Linux machine: I didn't realize there was so much ire beyond the frustration that nVidia ships a binary blob. As-is things didn't seem to be going anywhere, and there were no signs that nVidia was at all unhappy with that situation.
- IsTom 14y ago
  As far as I know Linus' attitude is well-known.

mnazim 14y ago

I know it's off topic, but isn't the article wrong when it mentions: > "Torvalds created Linux in 1991 as an open source alternative to Microsoft Windows" Linus wanted to run Unix on his desktop. I don't think Linus has ever said that "alternative to Windows" was the goal.

talmand 14y ago
That's the way I've always understood it. If he had wanted an alternative to Windows then it stands to reason it would look and operate more like Windows. Plus it would probably have been named something like Lindows, which someone eventually did.
- mnazim 14y ago
  Also didn't Windows actually start gaining the majority share only after 95 release, I am not sure about it though.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Majority share of what? MS Dos was popular on many desktops. CP/M was used on some weird systems (especially word processing); other forms of dos (PC dos, dr dos) were available but not nearly as popular as MS Dos. ("Dodgy" licensing deals were available then.) Windows 3.1 was very popular version of Windows. Windows for workgroups introduced some 32bit kludges. Since these are not operating systems I guess they don't count. But what was competing with them? GEM? Some Norton commander thing?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      3.1 was very popular at that time. Macs were also more common, although their popularity was eroding. If you wanted Unix you'd probably run it on a 680x0 or RISC box. We all thought RISC would be the future. Linux started in the 386 era. By then, Microsoft owned the PC space. CP/M was a distant memory.
tarre 14y ago

nicholassmith 14y ago

It was a totally expected, prepared, reasonable and truthy response that'll still not make people happy because it's not what they want. People need to stop assuming companies are there to make them happy, they're there to do what makes them happy and makes money.

runjake 14y ago

See the previous discussion from when this was submitted a few days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4132931 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4132931

gvb 14y ago

"While this may not please everyone, it does allow us to provide the most consistent GPU experience to our customers, regardless of platform or operating system." Consistent is not the same as good.

jason_slack 14y ago

Linus gives the finger at 49:50 but the conversation a minute or so before leads up to it.