6 ms·

Author here for your obscure Pentium questions...

by kens 2y ago

hindsightbias 2y ago
Well done.
- kens 2y ago
  Thanks! Curiously, the article doesn't show up on HN. Maybe my domain got banned or something?
  - Joe_Cool 2y ago
    I just saw it on the frontpage and very much enjoyed it.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    Check if you accidentally clicked "hide"... (hidden posts in your profile)
teruakohatu 2y ago
That was a very interesting and well researched article. Thank you.
omoikane 2y ago
I laughed at the bit where the gallery picked the wrong side of the rug to display, but this got me thinking -- presumably all the die photos we see are from the etched side of the wafer, what does it look like on the other side? Is it just all flat?
- kens 2y ago
  The other side is plain gray silicon; I've looked at the back side of dies by mistake many times. (Intel is starting to do power through the back side, which would make the back more interesting.)
  - Tuna-Fish 2y ago
    Note that it's entirely transparent to some wavelengths of light, which is why a lot of die shots are taken from the backside, as it allows doing them non-destructively. You just cannot use visible light.
    - kens 2y ago
      Unfortunately it's not that easy. I was working with John McMaster to get backside die shots of the 386 using infrared but it didn't work out.
- OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
  "Such hearts, such brains, would be unable to comprehend that one's attachment to a masterpiece may be utterly overwhelming, especially when it is the underside of the weave that entrances the beholder and only begetter, whose own past intercoils there with the fate of the innocent author." --- Nabokov, "Pale Fire"
n8henrie 2y ago
Just moved back to ABQ from Shiprock last month, after 8 years. Not every day you see Shiprock featured in an HN post!
- benatkin 2y ago
  Not every day I see a place on the Colorado Plateau in an HN post! I live in the SF Bay Area but am from Flagstaff!
chiph 2y ago
I had a dual Pentium II board (made by Tyan, with an Adaptec Raid Option slot) but I don't recall ever seeing a dual P54C board. Did a mainstream motherboard maker ever release one, to your knowledge?
- h2odragon 2y ago
  there was tyan, supermicro, and MSI? at least i thin my board with the dual pentium 60mhz chips was msi.
  - xanathar 2y ago
    Pentium 60MHz was P5 though, not P54C ... if I'm not mistaken. IIRC the slowest P54C was the 75MHz one as they all had 1.5x multiplier or greater? Again, I wouldn't rule out my memory being wrong.
    - TheAmazingRace 2y ago
      That sounds correct to me. Also, the P5 was a 5V design! Intel went to 3.3V soon after the very first Pentium CPUs.
- gattilorenz 2y ago
  You can find multiple of them here, with pictures too: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1&itemsPerPage=24&showImages=0&cpuSocket1=3&cpuSocket2=3 https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1&itemsPerPage=24...
toast0 2y ago
Not a pentium question, but.. > Due to the end of the Cold War, Hughes acquired General Dynamics' missile business in 1991 before being acquired by General Motors in 1985 and sold to Raytheon in 1997. I'm guessing that's supposed to be 91 -> 95 -> 97?
- kens 2y ago
  Trying to sort out aerospace companies is always a mess. I got the dates mostly right but reversed the timeline. GM acquired Hughes Aircraft in 1985, forming the Hughes Electronics unit which consisted of Hughes Aircraft and Delco Electronics. Hughes Aircraft acquired General Dynamics' missile business in 1992 to form the Hughes Missile System Company. In 1994, Hughes Electronics combined three operations into the Hughes Aerospace and Electronics Company (still a unit of GM). In 1997, Raytheon acquired the military business of Hughes Electronics Corporation from General Motors for $9.5 billion. At least I think that's what happened :-)
MandieD 2y ago
As a hobby hand-spinner and occasional weaver who’s been in IT my entire working life, and interested in learning more about what my home country has done to the nations that were already there, this article is excellent in all regards.
__alexander 2y ago
Excellent article. I know Shiprock but I didn’t know it’s history with manufacturing processors. Thank you for writing it.
wolf550e 2y ago
I get the feeling Intel needed to "bribe" the Navajo by ordering this work. Why did they need to do that? Was it part of an agreement with tribe leadership?
- kens 2y ago
  I think it's more likely that someone at Intel thought, "You know what would be cool? A rug that looked like the Pentium die." Note that unlike Fairchild, Intel's plant is not on Navajo land so there are no tribal agreements.
- klyrs 2y ago
  It's actually quite common for large companies to commission artworks inspired by their products; American companies frequently reach out to tribal artists for the uniqueness of their artistic style. Your comment is pretty depressing -- despite the clear mastery demonstrated in this art, you're insinuating a nefarious plot involving a long-scapegoated population.

Author here for your obscure Pentium questions...

by kens 2y ago

Author here for your obscure Pentium questions...

hindsightbias 2y ago

Well done.

kens 2y ago
Thanks! Curiously, the article doesn't show up on HN. Maybe my domain got banned or something?
- Joe_Cool 2y ago
  I just saw it on the frontpage and very much enjoyed it.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Check if you accidentally clicked "hide"... (hidden posts in your profile)

teruakohatu 2y ago

That was a very interesting and well researched article. Thank you.

omoikane 2y ago

I laughed at the bit where the gallery picked the wrong side of the rug to display, but this got me thinking -- presumably all the die photos we see are from the etched side of the wafer, what does it look like on the other side? Is it just all flat?

kens 2y ago
The other side is plain gray silicon; I've looked at the back side of dies by mistake many times. (Intel is starting to do power through the back side, which would make the back more interesting.)
- Tuna-Fish 2y ago
  Note that it's entirely transparent to some wavelengths of light, which is why a lot of die shots are taken from the backside, as it allows doing them non-destructively. You just cannot use visible light.
  - kens 2y ago
    Unfortunately it's not that easy. I was working with John McMaster to get backside die shots of the 386 using infrared but it didn't work out.
OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
"Such hearts, such brains, would be unable to comprehend that one's attachment to a masterpiece may be utterly overwhelming, especially when it is the underside of the weave that entrances the beholder and only begetter, whose own past intercoils there with the fate of the innocent author." --- Nabokov, "Pale Fire"

n8henrie 2y ago

Just moved back to ABQ from Shiprock last month, after 8 years. Not every day you see Shiprock featured in an HN post!

benatkin 2y ago
Not every day I see a place on the Colorado Plateau in an HN post! I live in the SF Bay Area but am from Flagstaff!

chiph 2y ago

I had a dual Pentium II board (made by Tyan, with an Adaptec Raid Option slot) but I don't recall ever seeing a dual P54C board. Did a mainstream motherboard maker ever release one, to your knowledge?

h2odragon 2y ago
there was tyan, supermicro, and MSI? at least i thin my board with the dual pentium 60mhz chips was msi.
- xanathar 2y ago
  Pentium 60MHz was P5 though, not P54C ... if I'm not mistaken. IIRC the slowest P54C was the 75MHz one as they all had 1.5x multiplier or greater? Again, I wouldn't rule out my memory being wrong.
  - TheAmazingRace 2y ago
    That sounds correct to me. Also, the P5 was a 5V design! Intel went to 3.3V soon after the very first Pentium CPUs.
gattilorenz 2y ago
You can find multiple of them here, with pictures too: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1&itemsPerPage=24&showImages=0&cpuSocket1=3&cpuSocket2=3 https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/?page=1&itemsPerPage=24...

toast0 2y ago

Not a pentium question, but.. > Due to the end of the Cold War, Hughes acquired General Dynamics' missile business in 1991 before being acquired by General Motors in 1985 and sold to Raytheon in 1997. I'm guessing that's supposed to be 91 -> 95 -> 97?

kens 2y ago
Trying to sort out aerospace companies is always a mess. I got the dates mostly right but reversed the timeline. GM acquired Hughes Aircraft in 1985, forming the Hughes Electronics unit which consisted of Hughes Aircraft and Delco Electronics. Hughes Aircraft acquired General Dynamics' missile business in 1992 to form the Hughes Missile System Company. In 1994, Hughes Electronics combined three operations into the Hughes Aerospace and Electronics Company (still a unit of GM). In 1997, Raytheon acquired the military business of Hughes Electronics Corporation from General Motors for $9.5 billion. At least I think that's what happened :-)

MandieD 2y ago

As a hobby hand-spinner and occasional weaver who’s been in IT my entire working life, and interested in learning more about what my home country has done to the nations that were already there, this article is excellent in all regards.

__alexander 2y ago

Excellent article. I know Shiprock but I didn’t know it’s history with manufacturing processors. Thank you for writing it.

wolf550e 2y ago

I get the feeling Intel needed to "bribe" the Navajo by ordering this work. Why did they need to do that? Was it part of an agreement with tribe leadership?

kens 2y ago
I think it's more likely that someone at Intel thought, "You know what would be cool? A rug that looked like the Pentium die." Note that unlike Fairchild, Intel's plant is not on Navajo land so there are no tribal agreements.
klyrs 2y ago
It's actually quite common for large companies to commission artworks inspired by their products; American companies frequently reach out to tribal artists for the uniqueness of their artistic style. Your comment is pretty depressing -- despite the clear mastery demonstrated in this art, you're insinuating a nefarious plot involving a long-scapegoated population.