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Works for natural ecosystems because we accept that mass casualties is "normal" in the natural world; if some species doesn't survive a mass fire/drought/etc, w

Works for natural ecosystems because we accept that mass casualties is "normal" in the natural world; if some species doesn't survive a mass fire/drought/etc, welp, that's nature. When millions of people starve to death, we don't accept that. (lol, well, we do accept it, as history has shown us time and time again, but we tend to not want to do nothing)

ethbr1 2y ago
Agreed. Parent is ignoring the positive effects of intervention while highlighting the negative. USAID funds USD$50b / year, and the US funds UNICEF to the tune of USD$1.4b / year. Which, among other things, supports the polio vaccination campaign being rolled out in Gaza, to prevent a public health catastrophe and possible resurgence of polio in the Middle East. It's easy to say "Let them eat cake" when one is sitting in the palace and opining about CIA boondoggles. In the real world, that means people are starving and children are crippled. We can (and should) strive for better than nasty, brutish, and short lives, regardless of a person's nationality.
- ein0p 2y ago
  And do remind us, who is funding the bombing of Gaza?
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies Kind of an international effort.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      It’s an “international effort” in the same way the second Iraq war was. The US is funding the lion’s share of this genocide
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    The right-wing Israeli government? Seeing as that's who their military reports to. The US may not be restraining them sufficiently, inasmuch as any country can another, but it's kind of a weird question. Israeli is more than capable of bombing Gaza into the stone age even absent US military aid. The broader finger pointing should be that, as always, nobody actually cares about the Palestinians. The West doesn't care, because Israel. The East doesn't care, because why would they? And the Middle East doesn't care, because as much as they trumpet the Palestinian cause to boost domestic popularity, none of them are actually willing to suffer consequences for the benefit of Palestinians. Which leaves... the Houthis and Iran, neither of which are very linked to the global economic network at this point, and so have little to lose.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      Israeli is more than capable of bombing Gaza into the stone age even absent US military aid. That's not true at all. Israel's military machine is far more self-sufficient than it was 20+ years ago. But over time, its capabilities would be significantly hobbled without U.S.-supplied parts and munitions. Don't forget those two aircraft carriers parked offshore, either. Losing access to U.S. military aid, weapons sales, and strategic backing would definitely hurt. Given that it has now chosen to expand the war to 3 fronts, it really doesn't want to put itself in that box.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        The Israelis have always been realistic about the fact that their access to US arms might be cut off. Hence why they (alone?) negotiated integration rights for their F-35s with domestic systems and munitions. The greatest loss to Israel if the US were to withdraw aid would be in air defense -- specifically the US leaning on its allies in the region (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt) to quietly use airspace and basing to defend Israel from missile barrages. At this point, it seems like Netanyahu doesn't much care what happens in the future, as long as his short-term political survival continues. We'll see if the hostage death protests change anything, since the Israeli public seems like the only entity that can prompt policy change.
    - 2y ago

ethbr1 2y ago

Agreed. Parent is ignoring the positive effects of intervention while highlighting the negative. USAID funds USD$50b / year, and the US funds UNICEF to the tune of USD$1.4b / year. Which, among other things, supports the polio vaccination campaign being rolled out in Gaza, to prevent a public health catastrophe and possible resurgence of polio in the Middle East. It's easy to say "Let them eat cake" when one is sitting in the palace and opining about CIA boondoggles. In the real world, that means people are starving and children are crippled. We can (and should) strive for better than nasty, brutish, and short lives, regardless of a person's nationality.

ein0p 2y ago
And do remind us, who is funding the bombing of Gaza?
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies Kind of an international effort.
  - ein0p 2y ago
    It’s an “international effort” in the same way the second Iraq war was. The US is funding the lion’s share of this genocide
- ethbr1 2y ago
  The right-wing Israeli government? Seeing as that's who their military reports to. The US may not be restraining them sufficiently, inasmuch as any country can another, but it's kind of a weird question. Israeli is more than capable of bombing Gaza into the stone age even absent US military aid. The broader finger pointing should be that, as always, nobody actually cares about the Palestinians. The West doesn't care, because Israel. The East doesn't care, because why would they? And the Middle East doesn't care, because as much as they trumpet the Palestinian cause to boost domestic popularity, none of them are actually willing to suffer consequences for the benefit of Palestinians. Which leaves... the Houthis and Iran, neither of which are very linked to the global economic network at this point, and so have little to lose.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Israeli is more than capable of bombing Gaza into the stone age even absent US military aid. That's not true at all. Israel's military machine is far more self-sufficient than it was 20+ years ago. But over time, its capabilities would be significantly hobbled without U.S.-supplied parts and munitions. Don't forget those two aircraft carriers parked offshore, either. Losing access to U.S. military aid, weapons sales, and strategic backing would definitely hurt. Given that it has now chosen to expand the war to 3 fronts, it really doesn't want to put itself in that box.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      The Israelis have always been realistic about the fact that their access to US arms might be cut off. Hence why they (alone?) negotiated integration rights for their F-35s with domestic systems and munitions. The greatest loss to Israel if the US were to withdraw aid would be in air defense -- specifically the US leaning on its allies in the region (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt) to quietly use airspace and basing to defend Israel from missile barrages. At this point, it seems like Netanyahu doesn't much care what happens in the future, as long as his short-term political survival continues. We'll see if the hostage death protests change anything, since the Israeli public seems like the only entity that can prompt policy change.
  - 2y ago