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I often see my dad use his iPad in keyboard/mouse mode. At this point I question the point of the iPad. It seems like the user is seeking to interact with it li

I often see my dad use his iPad in keyboard/mouse mode. At this point I question the point of the iPad. It seems like the user is seeking to interact with it like a laptop, yet the OS is far more compromised than macOS. Window management isn’t as flexible, all apps need to come from the App Store, things that power users would generally want (like Terminal) aren’t there for the native OS, Files is less capable than Finder, and the entire OS is build around apps rather than files, which makes working on a file across multiple applications more difficult. I think my tech life would be more simple if I could use an iPad as my computer, but I can’t see a path there. I’d have to give up too much.

neilalexander 2y ago
If you're looking at this from the perspective of a power user, then sure. For everyone else, the iPad makes a robust computing device that simply does not have a lot of complexity that we power users have just learned to accept. Try explaining the concept of "files" or "terminals" to a random person on the street.
- al_borland 2y ago
  Considering files have been at the center of how operating systems work since the beginning, and computers have been used in school and businesses for 30 years now, I find it disappointing that people are still confused by files. When people were confused by the keyboard, Jobs said that death would take care of that. When it came to files, he saw that as a problem that needed to be solved in the system, but I think it is more confusing on the iPad than macOS. People have had to use files, moving them to floppy disks, burning them to CDs, copying them to flash drives, and now dealing with them with services like Dropbox. I would think files and folders in a home directory would be something people understand now. I think the modern smartphone and tablets made a lot of people regress, and the youngest simply aren’t learning it. The less it’s used directly, the abstract the idea becomes, and that makes systems harder to use, because at the need of the day it’s still files and folder. Avoiding that has so far created confusing layers of abstraction that haven’t worked so well.
  - neilalexander 2y ago
    It's easy to say that files should be easy to understand by now but for a lot of people who aren't necessarily computer natives, there is a non-trivial learning curve as to what a "file" conceptually is: something that's on a storage device, that's in a specific part of some abstract folder tree, that is required to have a name, that has a type that may or may not in the name (file extensions), that has a format that some programs understand and others don't, that has an associated program or programs that know how to open it, that can be copied and that copies are in no way connected to the original that may be found in different locations to the original, etc. Contrast that to how iOS just generally leaves applications to "own" their own data and present them however makes most sense, with only a few exceptions (the most notable being the Photos app, which sorts and displays photos by things that make sense for photos). The place where you'll find the thing you were working on is actually just in the app where you were working on it, which is, unsurprisingly, far easier to explain. Plenty of people get on perfectly fine without knowing or caring about "files" and are not really worse off for it.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      Okay, I'm going to take a hard disagree on this point. Apple's "abstraction" for viewing files is really not that deep. If you open the Photos app, you are looking at a bunch of files. Garageband showing it's saves, iMovie showing it's projects, iCloud showing it's folders, none of it is a particularly "simplified" view of things. At best, it's rehashing the MIME type filtering mechanism most mainstream OSes have used since the 90s. You really cannot argue that iOS is some different breed of computer when ultimately it's just creating a custom wrapper around things people readily understand.
      - neilalexander 2y ago
        I didn’t say that iOS is some different breed of computer, I said that it doesn’t present a lot of the complexity. Of course it’s all files underneath but the point is that they are usually presented in a way that doesn’t leave the user thinking of them as “files” as an abstract concept. People browsing through the Photos app aren’t really thinking about file names, whether it’s a JPEG or some other format, what folders they’re in etc. The “abstraction” doesn’t need to be deep to be effective.
sandoze 2y ago
I program for a career and I’m not going to argue that iPad is going to be my go to device, until there’s a ‘killer’ app. But that’s my day job. When I want to play around with a hobby (writing, music, game dev using Godot???) I turn to an iPad because it’s NOT a computer. Maybe in the same way a lot of music hobbyists buy gear to make music even though using a computer DAW is far easier - we want to ‘unplug’.
- kejaed 2y ago
  Same here. I used to have Linux on my iPod and Xbox, MythTV running on a server and Fujitsu netbook. Now between the hockey rinks and soccer fields, I take out my iPad Pro for HN, light photo editing and Netflix if I’m lucky enough to find an hour of down time. There’s enough Linux, QNX, Windows, FreeRTOS, Azure, etc etc all day at work now.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    That is how eventually I settled back on Windows 7 with Virtual Box/VMWare, nowadays WSL, and a bunch of Android and WebOS devices.
beardystarstuff 2y ago
I use the iPad for several reasons. - I can remove the keyboard when I don't want it. - When I want it I can use keyboard, trackpad, mouse and a Pencil, something a Mac does not have. There are power users out in the world that never use a terminal because that's not their line of work. I use the Affinity suite of apps, most notable Affinity Publisher for layout and design work. I regularly design annual reports, newsletters, any number of print materials ranging from brochures, posters, banners, bookmarks, etc. All of it. And I do it all with the iPad and whatever input I want/need at the moment. No problem. Additionally I use the iPad along with Textastic to code websites the old fashioned way, basic html and css. I started experimenting using the iPad for those particular jobs in 2010. When I sold my MacBook Pro in 2017 I switched to the iPad for all of my new website set-ups as well as website updates for existing sites. Textastic is great for that and I've had no problem. Last, I do spreadsheet work for a client who runs a retreat center. I process thousands of records per year, managing contacts, retreat signups, mailings, etc all from the iPad and with no problem. When I want a break or at the end of the day I set the keyboard to the side but within reach. Another point worth mentioning that I think often goes overlooked by those that don't use the iPad is the variety of interesting set-ups that can be created with it. Because it's not attached permanently to a keyboard it can be easily attached to a multi-arm stand and swiveled to different angles and heights. Just one example. I've enjoyed experimenting with all sorts of different useful arrangements. The iPad obviously isn't for everyone or every task. But it's kinda bonkers how many people who don't have a use for it themselves just assume that no one else could possibly put it to use.
- al_borland 2y ago
  For those who have a use for the touch screen, like drawing, I get it. I was thinking more about people who solely use the iPad docked with the keyboard and trackpad. I’ve had 6 or 7 iPads. They all end up sitting around with a dead battery after a while, because all I ever want is a keyboard and mouse, and at that point, the laptop is easier to deal with.

neilalexander 2y ago

If you're looking at this from the perspective of a power user, then sure. For everyone else, the iPad makes a robust computing device that simply does not have a lot of complexity that we power users have just learned to accept. Try explaining the concept of "files" or "terminals" to a random person on the street.

al_borland 2y ago
Considering files have been at the center of how operating systems work since the beginning, and computers have been used in school and businesses for 30 years now, I find it disappointing that people are still confused by files. When people were confused by the keyboard, Jobs said that death would take care of that. When it came to files, he saw that as a problem that needed to be solved in the system, but I think it is more confusing on the iPad than macOS. People have had to use files, moving them to floppy disks, burning them to CDs, copying them to flash drives, and now dealing with them with services like Dropbox. I would think files and folders in a home directory would be something people understand now. I think the modern smartphone and tablets made a lot of people regress, and the youngest simply aren’t learning it. The less it’s used directly, the abstract the idea becomes, and that makes systems harder to use, because at the need of the day it’s still files and folder. Avoiding that has so far created confusing layers of abstraction that haven’t worked so well.
- neilalexander 2y ago
  It's easy to say that files should be easy to understand by now but for a lot of people who aren't necessarily computer natives, there is a non-trivial learning curve as to what a "file" conceptually is: something that's on a storage device, that's in a specific part of some abstract folder tree, that is required to have a name, that has a type that may or may not in the name (file extensions), that has a format that some programs understand and others don't, that has an associated program or programs that know how to open it, that can be copied and that copies are in no way connected to the original that may be found in different locations to the original, etc. Contrast that to how iOS just generally leaves applications to "own" their own data and present them however makes most sense, with only a few exceptions (the most notable being the Photos app, which sorts and displays photos by things that make sense for photos). The place where you'll find the thing you were working on is actually just in the app where you were working on it, which is, unsurprisingly, far easier to explain. Plenty of people get on perfectly fine without knowing or caring about "files" and are not really worse off for it.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Okay, I'm going to take a hard disagree on this point. Apple's "abstraction" for viewing files is really not that deep. If you open the Photos app, you are looking at a bunch of files. Garageband showing it's saves, iMovie showing it's projects, iCloud showing it's folders, none of it is a particularly "simplified" view of things. At best, it's rehashing the MIME type filtering mechanism most mainstream OSes have used since the 90s. You really cannot argue that iOS is some different breed of computer when ultimately it's just creating a custom wrapper around things people readily understand.
    - neilalexander 2y ago
      I didn’t say that iOS is some different breed of computer, I said that it doesn’t present a lot of the complexity. Of course it’s all files underneath but the point is that they are usually presented in a way that doesn’t leave the user thinking of them as “files” as an abstract concept. People browsing through the Photos app aren’t really thinking about file names, whether it’s a JPEG or some other format, what folders they’re in etc. The “abstraction” doesn’t need to be deep to be effective.

sandoze 2y ago

I program for a career and I’m not going to argue that iPad is going to be my go to device, until there’s a ‘killer’ app. But that’s my day job. When I want to play around with a hobby (writing, music, game dev using Godot???) I turn to an iPad because it’s NOT a computer. Maybe in the same way a lot of music hobbyists buy gear to make music even though using a computer DAW is far easier - we want to ‘unplug’.

kejaed 2y ago
Same here. I used to have Linux on my iPod and Xbox, MythTV running on a server and Fujitsu netbook. Now between the hockey rinks and soccer fields, I take out my iPad Pro for HN, light photo editing and Netflix if I’m lucky enough to find an hour of down time. There’s enough Linux, QNX, Windows, FreeRTOS, Azure, etc etc all day at work now.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  That is how eventually I settled back on Windows 7 with Virtual Box/VMWare, nowadays WSL, and a bunch of Android and WebOS devices.

beardystarstuff 2y ago

I use the iPad for several reasons. - I can remove the keyboard when I don't want it. - When I want it I can use keyboard, trackpad, mouse and a Pencil, something a Mac does not have. There are power users out in the world that never use a terminal because that's not their line of work. I use the Affinity suite of apps, most notable Affinity Publisher for layout and design work. I regularly design annual reports, newsletters, any number of print materials ranging from brochures, posters, banners, bookmarks, etc. All of it. And I do it all with the iPad and whatever input I want/need at the moment. No problem. Additionally I use the iPad along with Textastic to code websites the old fashioned way, basic html and css. I started experimenting using the iPad for those particular jobs in 2010. When I sold my MacBook Pro in 2017 I switched to the iPad for all of my new website set-ups as well as website updates for existing sites. Textastic is great for that and I've had no problem. Last, I do spreadsheet work for a client who runs a retreat center. I process thousands of records per year, managing contacts, retreat signups, mailings, etc all from the iPad and with no problem. When I want a break or at the end of the day I set the keyboard to the side but within reach. Another point worth mentioning that I think often goes overlooked by those that don't use the iPad is the variety of interesting set-ups that can be created with it. Because it's not attached permanently to a keyboard it can be easily attached to a multi-arm stand and swiveled to different angles and heights. Just one example. I've enjoyed experimenting with all sorts of different useful arrangements. The iPad obviously isn't for everyone or every task. But it's kinda bonkers how many people who don't have a use for it themselves just assume that no one else could possibly put it to use.

al_borland 2y ago
For those who have a use for the touch screen, like drawing, I get it. I was thinking more about people who solely use the iPad docked with the keyboard and trackpad. I’ve had 6 or 7 iPads. They all end up sitting around with a dead battery after a while, because all I ever want is a keyboard and mouse, and at that point, the laptop is easier to deal with.