4 ms·

What do you mean by free speech is regressing in anglophone countries? That seems like a weird opinion to have? Do you have a particular example?

by willyt 2y ago

AdrianB1 2y ago
Random: https://nypost.com/2024/06/29/world-news/german-woman-given-harsher-sentence-than-rapist-for-defamation/ https://nypost.com/2024/06/29/world-news/german-woman-given-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o (Misogyny to be treated as extremism by UK government) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_Human_Rights_Act_and_the_Criminal_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_H... One can easily find examples in all countries. These countries do not have a free speech right in their Constitutions, for example, and no plans to include it.
- bawolff 2y ago
  Canada does indeed have free speech (expression) in its constitution. There are limits to speech, but that is true in every country, including the USA (if you dont believe me, try yelling "i have a bomb" in an american airport and see what happens next)
  - VancouverMan 2y ago
    Section 1 and Section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantee that it's useless in practice. This was confirmed by how the Charter did nothing to stop the abuses that Canadians endured from 2020 through 2022.
    - bawolff 2y ago
      Which abuses specificly do you think section 33 enabled between 2020 to 2022? Or if its all section 1, do you feel that any country at all has freedom of speech? I can't think of any country that doesn't have something equivalent to section 1, even if only implicitly. Different countries draw the line somewhat differently, but there are none that dont have some sort of similar limited limits to freedom of speech.
      - VancouverMan 2y ago
        For the 2020-2022 situation, I see Section 1 as the problem. But Quebec, for example, has repeatedly invoked Section 33 over the years, including for legislation limiting expression in non-French languages, among other matters. Any country that imposes limits on expression simply doesn't have free expression. That would include Canada and the US, and like you say, probably most every other country. As a Canadian, I can't honestly claim to have constitutionally-protected free expression when I know I could be prosecuted merely for expressing certain ideas.
- willyt 2y ago
  But that’s good. In cases where your freedom to say whatever you want is used to incite hatred and abuse of others, this freedom is restricted by society. I would say that’s a better system than the US.
archgoon 2y ago
> What do you mean by free speech is regressing in anglophone countries? That seems like a weird opinion to have? Do you have a particular example? In the US at least, I'd say for most of the existence of the web, the prevalent idea was that the best way to counter 'bad' speech was more speech. The concern over 'misinformation' has resulted in a lot of people, whom previously had advocated for unrestricted speech, calling for regulation or removal of section 230. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/opinion/misinformation-disinformation-solutions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/opinion/misinformation-di... Like many Zeitgeist trends, it is difficult to measure concretely and objectively, especially if it hasn't been tracked in the past. Especially when people's understanding of what constitutes "free" speech shifts over time.

What do you mean by free speech is regressing in anglophone countries? That seems like a weird opinion to have? Do you have a particular example?

by willyt 2y ago

What do you mean by free speech is regressing in anglophone countries? That seems like a weird opinion to have? Do you have a particular example?

AdrianB1 2y ago

Random: https://nypost.com/2024/06/29/world-news/german-woman-given-harsher-sentence-than-rapist-for-defamation/ https://nypost.com/2024/06/29/world-news/german-woman-given-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c15gn0lq7p5o (Misogyny to be treated as extremism by UK government) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_Human_Rights_Act_and_the_Criminal_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_to_amend_the_Canadian_H... One can easily find examples in all countries. These countries do not have a free speech right in their Constitutions, for example, and no plans to include it.

bawolff 2y ago
Canada does indeed have free speech (expression) in its constitution. There are limits to speech, but that is true in every country, including the USA (if you dont believe me, try yelling "i have a bomb" in an american airport and see what happens next)
- VancouverMan 2y ago
  Section 1 and Section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantee that it's useless in practice. This was confirmed by how the Charter did nothing to stop the abuses that Canadians endured from 2020 through 2022.
  - bawolff 2y ago
    Which abuses specificly do you think section 33 enabled between 2020 to 2022? Or if its all section 1, do you feel that any country at all has freedom of speech? I can't think of any country that doesn't have something equivalent to section 1, even if only implicitly. Different countries draw the line somewhat differently, but there are none that dont have some sort of similar limited limits to freedom of speech.
    - VancouverMan 2y ago
      For the 2020-2022 situation, I see Section 1 as the problem. But Quebec, for example, has repeatedly invoked Section 33 over the years, including for legislation limiting expression in non-French languages, among other matters. Any country that imposes limits on expression simply doesn't have free expression. That would include Canada and the US, and like you say, probably most every other country. As a Canadian, I can't honestly claim to have constitutionally-protected free expression when I know I could be prosecuted merely for expressing certain ideas.
willyt 2y ago
But that’s good. In cases where your freedom to say whatever you want is used to incite hatred and abuse of others, this freedom is restricted by society. I would say that’s a better system than the US.

archgoon 2y ago

> What do you mean by free speech is regressing in anglophone countries? That seems like a weird opinion to have? Do you have a particular example? In the US at least, I'd say for most of the existence of the web, the prevalent idea was that the best way to counter 'bad' speech was more speech. The concern over 'misinformation' has resulted in a lot of people, whom previously had advocated for unrestricted speech, calling for regulation or removal of section 230. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/opinion/misinformation-disinformation-solutions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/opinion/misinformation-di... Like many Zeitgeist trends, it is difficult to measure concretely and objectively, especially if it hasn't been tracked in the past. Especially when people's understanding of what constitutes "free" speech shifts over time.