7 ms·
Starliner crew reports hearing "sonar like noises"
- m_a_g 2y agoIt seems that properly grounding speakers is a challenge even for NASA/SpaceX. Edit: I somehow wrote SpaceX even though I knew Starliner is made by Boeing. The news related to X being blocked in Brazil confused me probably…
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sebmellen 2y agoStarliner is made by Boeing.
- readthenotes1 2y agoBoeing. SpaceX had nothing to do with StarLiner
- dcow 2y agoReal question… how do you “ground” electrical in a space craft? There’s no earth. Large capacitors or something? Or do you just have to live with a floating ground (literally)?
- schiffern 2y agoThe latter, much the same as the "ground" in an automobile or airplane (or even just any old battery-operated device). "Ground" is an arbitrarily-chosen voltage convention. In space the floating ground won't cause a fault because there's never an electrical circuit with both the floating ground and the 'real' ground. EDIT: turns out the ISS is a bit more complicated than that, and it also has a "grounding strap" that connects to the local plasma. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41417136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41417136
- verzali 2y agoYou do need to take some care when docking, however.
- 486sx33 2y agoIndeed cars, airplanes, boats, all have “grounds” that are not “earthed” in any way. Fun tidbit, old English cars (and the original Ford Model A!) used to tie positive DC to the frame rail as a “ground” or “common” instead of the negative DC. They are referred to as positive ground cars (and tractors!) https://www.restore-an-old-car.com/positive-ground-cars.html https://www.restore-an-old-car.com/positive-ground-cars.html
- imoverclocked 2y agoThere are modern cars that do this still. One needs to be careful when connecting jumper cables for this reason.
- yason 2y agoWhich modern cars, for example? As far as I know the era of positive ground vehicles ended roughly during the fifties, and very much by the sixties at the latest.
- imoverclocked 2y agoHmm, I stand corrected… and maybe aged a little. I have a memory of having to care about this many years ago :-/
- ultrarunner 2y agoAirplanes do have static wicks [0] which could be seen as a form of local ground. I love these as an example of the adjacent engineering challenges that arise. Busses also (used to?) have ground straps that you may see dragging. Apparently this was somewhat common on cars as well. "bus ground strap" is unsurprisingly difficult to search for, but I did find a discussion on Quora [1] that claims rubber formulations were responsible for vehicles picking up a static charge. All of this is interesting once seen as an attempt to remove the potential difference between local "ground" and ambient environment. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_wick https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_wick [1] https://www.quora.com/Cars-used-to-have-grounding-straps-hanging-from-the-back-dragging-over-the-road-What-was-the-use-and-why-are-they-no-more-used https://www.quora.com/Cars-used-to-have-grounding-straps-han...
- HPsquared 2y agoSame as an aircraft or car. The chassis is the ground. (Edit: as in, the "ground" is the chassis)
- mglz 2y agoNASA has a handbook on it: https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/NASA-HDBK-4001.pdf https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/NASA-HDBK... Apparently you attach all grounds to some common component, like the chassis and then you have a zero volt reference. As long as it is stable and the relative voltages to it are consistent, that should suffice for electrical systems. Handling overall charge of the craft might be a bigger challenge, but no idea how that would be handled.
- dotancohen 2y agoHow are docking spacecraft handled, which likely have a different base charge?
- ceejayoz 2y agoVenting xenon plasma. (Also important for not frying astronauts on spacewalks.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_contactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_contactor
- RandomThoughts3 2y agoProtective actions are required by the docking standard so it’s taken care of at docking but I find it very hard to find detailed information about implementations. It’s either very niche or considered sensitive enough to not be published widely. I guess they use the same solution than during EVA which is running the Plasma Contactor Units to dissipate any buildup.
- schiffern 2y agoThe docking spacecraft must follow a NASA standard[1] to avoid building up electrostatic charge. From the Commercial Crew requirements document[2]: 3.9.3.13 Integrated Space Vehicle Electrostatic Charge Control 3.9.3.13.1 LEO Charging Design Standard The spacecraft shall meet the intent of the requirements contained in NASA-STD-4005, Low Earth Orbit Spacecraft Charging Design Standard. [R.CTS.285] How the contractors achieve that might be proprietary. It looks like (at one time) SpaceX used electrically conductive paint[3] as part of their mitigations. [1] https://standards.nasa.gov/standard/NASA/NASA-STD-4005 https://standards.nasa.gov/standard/NASA/NASA-STD-4005 [2] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20150010757/downloads/20150010757.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20150010757/downloads/20... [3] https://phys.org/news/2013-03-white-coating-spacex-dragon-trunk.html https://phys.org/news/2013-03-white-coating-spacex-dragon-tr...
- dylan604 2y agoAt least it's not there's no Earth. I think we've seen that movie where Earth disappears from the space station. I would assume everything on ISS and capsules are running DC. Does DC need a ground? Every electronic circuit I've built just uses ground as the common leg to battery or power.
- lindboe 2y agoFun fact: it's very difficult to get rid of built-up charge in space. And guess what incident EM radiation does to your electronics: that's right, it can build up charge! To my understanding, this is especially a problem when charge is built up in specific dielectrics/insulators or the very delicate structures of modern transistors and other semiconductor devices. This so-called "total ionizing dose" [1] can lead to "leakage currents, degrade the gain of a device, affect timing characteristics, and, in some cases, result in complete functional failure" [2]. Any RF or EMC engineer will tell you that ground is a dirty word, especially in extreme conditions. There's no one-size-fits-all approach, since so much depends on the physical context. [1] https://radhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome/tid.htm https://radhome.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome/tid.htm [2] https://www.analog.com/en/signals/thought-leadership/challenges-for-electronic-circuits-in-space-applications.html https://www.analog.com/en/signals/thought-leadership/challen...
- charliebwrites 2y agoThis is the _Boeing_ Starliner SpaceX has nothing to do with it https://www.boeing.com/space/starliner https://www.boeing.com/space/starliner
- roomey 2y agoI would absolutely shit myself if I heard that coming through the speaker in a bloody space station! Them astronauts have nerves of steel.
- belter 2y agoScary movies don't really work in a small space... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uXl-Sp00s7M https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uXl-Sp00s7M
- wildylion 2y agoThe famous Boeing sound.
- 486sx33 2y agoAt this point, Boeing should just embrace it and release this as their new corporate jingle. The sound of the future! (Wooden hammer on a steel bucket!)
- jmbwell 2y agoDoor’s open with the keys in the ignition…
- dylan604 2y agoI was thinking more that someone doesn't have their seatbelt fastened.
- mywacaday 2y agoLoose/missing door bolts?
- penguin_booze 2y agoSir, that's our premium offering - we call it 'extra windy seats'.
- euroderf 2y agoA brand has to mean something.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- JCM9 2y agoBillions of dollars has been reduced to a piece of space junk stuck on the ISS making annoying strange noises.
- Duhck 2y agoIs this true? I know we all want to hate on Boeing for obvious reasons, but they did get a manned crew to space, without blowing anyone up...
- janice1999 2y agoNASA does does not trust Boeing to return those astronauts to Earth alive. That is pretty devastating.
- RobotToaster 2y ago> without blowing anyone up... Yet
- snapplebobapple 2y agoThats no loonger the standard since many have done that by now. The standard is now manned cost to orbit. The race to the bottom in cost to orbit will inspire the next round of awe inducing spin off whose race to the bottom will then do the same for the next round... we are capturing the ripplesin the pond of capability improvement right now that has been held up for fifty years by space trvel being stuck in the realm of government (computing advancements held us back too so maybe only the last twenty years is attributable to the gocernment).
- JCM9 2y agoGetting things into orbit is table stakes. Boeing needed to prove that they could build a reliable crew vehicle on a reasonable budget, and by that measure they have failed.
- dotancohen 2y agoThey did get a manned crew to space, yes. But the foremost expert agency on spaceflight, NASA, does not trust that craft to get the crew back down.
- Ukv 2y agoThere was a report from China's first manned mission of a sound like "knocking an iron bucket with a wooden hammer", which was eventually determined to be air pressure changes[0]. But the fact that this sound is coming through the speaker, and the way it restarts around 1:10 (unless that's just a comms hiccup), makes this seem like some kind of electronics issue. Sounds a bit like an alarm/warning, even. [0]: https://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-12/02/content_27545348.htm https://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-12/02/content_27545...
- fredgrott 2y agoSound of Boeing's DoD money train coming to an end....
- fnord77 2y agoany sort of electronic glitch would almost certainly be screetchy. Think about the fullness of the waveform to make a sonar ping like that (like in a synth or something). Really weird!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- enrico204 2y agoIsn't that the MCAS warning? /s
- phkahler 2y agoEmanating from a speaker?
- adingus 2y ago[flagged]
- dvdkon 2y agoA more reputable source, with a link to the original recording: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/starliners-speaker-began-emitting-strange-sonar-noises-on-saturday/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/starliners-speaker-beg...
- Animats 2y agoThat's funny. The astronauts call first line tech support, and get a useless answer while the problem is passed to a higher level of tech support. The astronaut on the line didn't get a support ticket number, though.
- RachelF 2y agoThat capsule better keep quiet - Boeing doesn't like Whistleblowers ;-)
- dang 2y agoOk, we changed the URL to that from https://twitter.com/SpaceBasedFox/status/1830180273130242223 https://twitter.com/SpaceBasedFox/status/1830180273130242223. Thanks!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fortyseven 2y agoIt almost sounded like a rope on a flag pole banging against the pole in the wind. Except, you know... space winds... Eep.
- RaftPeople 2y agoIt's that creature from Twilight zone that was on the airplane wing, but he's in space now.
- shantara 2y agoOne of the multitude of issues found during Starliner flight preparations was that the wiring insulation was flammable, which forced them to rip out and redo the entire thing. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/crewed-starliner-launch-delayed-by-flammable-tape-botched-parachutes/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/crewed-starliner-... My bet is that the new wiring wasn’t properly RF shielded.
- jowdones 2y agoSounds like the background music in horror movies, when the Aliens are about to attack.
- not_your_mentat 2y agoIt's time for the team on the ISS to split up to cover more ground.
- jowdones 2y agoLOL. That's a good one :))
- 2-3-7-43-1807 2y agoreminds me of this gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIKDRS5K2uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIKDRS5K2uo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32958319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32958319 has this been solved?
- rasz 2y agoIs Matt Damon on board by any chance? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H1s9gj5DA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H1s9gj5DA
- nabaraz 2y agoI have always wanted to get a radio and just tune to 145.800 MHz FM to hear all the conversation between ground station and ISS.
- hagbard_c 2y agoThat very much sounds like those aliens from that book by Carl Sagan made into a movie starring Jodie Foster, "Contact". In the book and movie they needed the VLA radio telescope to pick up the signal but modern technology has made it possible for an enlarged Apollo clone to receive it on the entertainment system. If you don't understand it just watch the movie and listen to the signal picked up from the region around the star Vega, then you will understand.
- NikkiA 2y agoIt's most likely a warning chime telling the crew that the warning chime system has failed.
- relbeek2 2y agoSept 2 Update > NASA issued the following explanation on Monday for the strange noises: "A pulsing sound from a speaker in Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft heard by NASA astronaut Butch Wilmore aboard the International Space Station has stopped. The feedback from the speaker was the result of an audio configuration between the space station and Starliner. The space station audio system is complex, allowing multiple spacecraft and modules to be interconnected, and it is common to experience noise and feedback."
- Trebhawkins 2y ago[flagged]