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> will be mined in the future There's exactly no evidence to assume anyone will have a reason to dig up and use our plastics in the future. Imagining a hypothe

> will be mined in the future There's exactly no evidence to assume anyone will have a reason to dig up and use our plastics in the future. Imagining a hypothetical reason someone would want to do this is unproductive and drives people to make decisions based entirely on a fiction that their waste might be useful to future generations. In fact, we already know that plastics degrade and break down: unlike metals and glass (which can already be productively reused and recycled) plastic becomes less useful with time.

userbinator 2y ago
Several thousand years ago: "what's this black oily stuff oozing out of the ground?"
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Petroleum is not a recent discovery, it was known to various ancient peoples in Asia, North Africa, Europe, and America where it seeped to the surface and was used in various forms for at least 70,000 years. It was most widely used to caulk ships, pave roads, cement buildings, waterproof canals, heal skin diseases, kill lice, and preserve mummies (Novelli and Sella 2009). "History of Oil: Regions and Uses of Petroleum in the Classical and Medieval Periods" (2020) <https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-02330-4_38-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-3...> What limited wider application were largely limits to how rapidly it could be extracted, which waited for drilling methods first developed in China for salt mining thousands of years ago, before being adapted by Galacian and American oil prospectors in the 19th century, and far more importantly, transportation, first in barrels on barges, then on railroad cars (requiring iron and steel for locomotives, cars, and of course rails themselves), and pipelines (requiring high-quality steel and manufacturing processes), virtually all of which required industrial-age technologies. This is actually true of fossil fuels generally: coal was first used proximate to natural occurrence, then in Britain where the proximity to coastlines and waterways meant that it could be shipped large distances, and natural gas required pipelines, pressurised storage facilities, and cryogenics. Even today, natural gas remains difficult to store and transport in bulk without ready access to pipelines. In the US, despite abundant coal reserves, fuelwood served the bulk of energy needs until the development of Bessemer-process steel permitted not only railroads, but railroads whose rails could handle the weight and forces of heavily-laden coal gondolas, in the 1880s. Locally-sourced, locally-transported wood was far more practical, and overwhelmingly abundant (despite being harvested at rates exceeding replacement). Meanwhile, alternatives for fuel, medical, and other uses were generally available, mostly through plant- and animal-based fats and oils: olive oil (from which petroleum oil received its name), wood and charcoal rather than rock coal, and animal fats used in skin treatments and candles. These could be locally sourced near population centres and rather than in the remote and often hostile regions in which fossil fuels were found. The ancients were well aware of fossil fuels, they simply couldn't make ample use of them without numerous other complementary technologies.
- bastawhiz 2y ago
  This presupposes that several thousand years from now 1. We've forgotten about fossil fuels 2. Fossil fuels are a desirable source of energy in the future 3. Plastics buried in landfills will decompose into oil 4. There won't be more plentiful sources of oil, such as wells that weren't depleted in the present, or unrefined biomass that decomposed into more useable crude oil

userbinator 2y ago

Several thousand years ago: "what's this black oily stuff oozing out of the ground?"

dredmorbius 2y ago
Petroleum is not a recent discovery, it was known to various ancient peoples in Asia, North Africa, Europe, and America where it seeped to the surface and was used in various forms for at least 70,000 years. It was most widely used to caulk ships, pave roads, cement buildings, waterproof canals, heal skin diseases, kill lice, and preserve mummies (Novelli and Sella 2009). "History of Oil: Regions and Uses of Petroleum in the Classical and Medieval Periods" (2020) <https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-319-02330-4_38-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-3...> What limited wider application were largely limits to how rapidly it could be extracted, which waited for drilling methods first developed in China for salt mining thousands of years ago, before being adapted by Galacian and American oil prospectors in the 19th century, and far more importantly, transportation, first in barrels on barges, then on railroad cars (requiring iron and steel for locomotives, cars, and of course rails themselves), and pipelines (requiring high-quality steel and manufacturing processes), virtually all of which required industrial-age technologies. This is actually true of fossil fuels generally: coal was first used proximate to natural occurrence, then in Britain where the proximity to coastlines and waterways meant that it could be shipped large distances, and natural gas required pipelines, pressurised storage facilities, and cryogenics. Even today, natural gas remains difficult to store and transport in bulk without ready access to pipelines. In the US, despite abundant coal reserves, fuelwood served the bulk of energy needs until the development of Bessemer-process steel permitted not only railroads, but railroads whose rails could handle the weight and forces of heavily-laden coal gondolas, in the 1880s. Locally-sourced, locally-transported wood was far more practical, and overwhelmingly abundant (despite being harvested at rates exceeding replacement). Meanwhile, alternatives for fuel, medical, and other uses were generally available, mostly through plant- and animal-based fats and oils: olive oil (from which petroleum oil received its name), wood and charcoal rather than rock coal, and animal fats used in skin treatments and candles. These could be locally sourced near population centres and rather than in the remote and often hostile regions in which fossil fuels were found. The ancients were well aware of fossil fuels, they simply couldn't make ample use of them without numerous other complementary technologies.
bastawhiz 2y ago
This presupposes that several thousand years from now 1. We've forgotten about fossil fuels 2. Fossil fuels are a desirable source of energy in the future 3. Plastics buried in landfills will decompose into oil 4. There won't be more plentiful sources of oil, such as wells that weren't depleted in the present, or unrefined biomass that decomposed into more useable crude oil