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Silicon economics mean that whoever has the highest volume can invest the most in better designs and better process. Apple gets volume from the iPhone. This i

Silicon economics mean that whoever has the highest volume can invest the most in better designs and better process. Apple gets volume from the iPhone. This is also why x86 outperformed expensive (and so low volume) RISC workstation CPUs for a long time at single thread perf, and then eventually on multi thread perf too.

drivebycomment 2y ago
This "why" is more "what are the underlying economics that enable the development of the better chip". Economics doesn't guarantee you'll get a better CPU. It still takes a cutting-edge engineering team with a good CPU architect to build that best chip. e.g. Intel didn't fall behind because of lack of money.
- pizlonator 2y ago
  Intel’s revenue has been at least 4x less than Apple’s since 2015. Last year the gap was more like 7x.
saagarjha 2y ago
Intel has volume, though. They ship millions of expensive CPUs to servers around the world. It’s just that they dropped the ball compared to Apple.
- pizlonator 2y ago
  Hard to find reliable numbers, but it looks like the number of x86 chips sold per year is less than the number of iPhones sold per year, based on my totally not serious research. Do you have data that says otherwise?
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Oh, I would probably agree. I’m just saying Intel also ships a lot of chips and it’s not like they are hurting for cash from those sales. I think a direct comparison would be difficult because the BOM of the average iPhone processor is surely much less than Intel’s but they sell a lot more, but also Apple’s revenue is mixed in a lot of things so looking at just a processor is not really possible to do considering the money goes to making iPhones not just chips. I think if you looked at overall R&D investment on processors in dollars though then numbers would look a lot closer.
    - pizlonator 2y ago
      I think that process and the fabs influence things much much more than the microarch design. In fact, what microarch you can aim for (like, how wide it can be, and so how aggressive you get to be with all aspects of it) comes down to how good the process is. So the comparison is Intel vs TSMC. If you consider that TSMC doesn’t just have Apple as a customer, then holy cow the difference is big.

drivebycomment 2y ago

This "why" is more "what are the underlying economics that enable the development of the better chip". Economics doesn't guarantee you'll get a better CPU. It still takes a cutting-edge engineering team with a good CPU architect to build that best chip. e.g. Intel didn't fall behind because of lack of money.

pizlonator 2y ago
Intel’s revenue has been at least 4x less than Apple’s since 2015. Last year the gap was more like 7x.

saagarjha 2y ago

Intel has volume, though. They ship millions of expensive CPUs to servers around the world. It’s just that they dropped the ball compared to Apple.

pizlonator 2y ago
Hard to find reliable numbers, but it looks like the number of x86 chips sold per year is less than the number of iPhones sold per year, based on my totally not serious research. Do you have data that says otherwise?
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Oh, I would probably agree. I’m just saying Intel also ships a lot of chips and it’s not like they are hurting for cash from those sales. I think a direct comparison would be difficult because the BOM of the average iPhone processor is surely much less than Intel’s but they sell a lot more, but also Apple’s revenue is mixed in a lot of things so looking at just a processor is not really possible to do considering the money goes to making iPhones not just chips. I think if you looked at overall R&D investment on processors in dollars though then numbers would look a lot closer.
  - pizlonator 2y ago
    I think that process and the fabs influence things much much more than the microarch design. In fact, what microarch you can aim for (like, how wide it can be, and so how aggressive you get to be with all aspects of it) comes down to how good the process is. So the comparison is Intel vs TSMC. If you consider that TSMC doesn’t just have Apple as a customer, then holy cow the difference is big.