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> Seems like if it’s technically possible, it will happen, and we can’t stop technological progress. ‘The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been

by Lammy 2y ago

> Seems like if it’s technically possible, it will happen, and we can’t stop technological progress. ‘The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in “advanced” countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in “advanced” countries.’

eastbound 2y ago
I don’t know. People have been living without reliable access to food and potable water, not even talking about sore deformations on their faces, for a thousand years. But somehow their lives were fulfilling?
- throwaway894345 2y ago
  Yeah, I don’t see many of the people criticizing the Industrial Revolution opting into pre-industrial existences. I’m pretty minimalist, and I’ve grown up around the Amish and even they prefer to avail themselves of technology where they can. I think there’s a fair amount of romanticizing about a pre-industrial lifestyle. This obviously isn’t to argue that we should all live maximally consumerist lifestyles; I don’t think that’s true either.
- swayvil 2y ago
  >sore deformations Is that what's referred to as a "wen"? (Onomatopoetic term, that. Think of how you'd talk with a golfball in your mouth)
njtransit 2y ago
Do you really think life was fulfilling before the Industrial Revolution? Most men toiled, watched their children and wives die, before dying at a young age themselves. Where was the fulfillment, exactly? You’re only able to contemplate that life could possibly be fulfilling because of the Industrial Revolution.
- yulker 2y ago
  Gotta look past the agricultural revolution, not just shortly before industrial revolution
- checkyoursudo 2y ago
  There was no art, poetry, craftsmanship, skill, talent, fame, friendship (or relationships of any kind), flavor, joy, celebration, or creativity before the Industrial Revolution. Gotcha.
Spooky23 2y ago
Speak for yourself. My ancestors pre-industrial revolution were half starved tenant farmers making a subsistence living on too small plots of farmland in colonized Ireland, subject to random slaughter when the English changed their plans. Now, our extended family is prosperous in the US, Australia and Ireland. We’re taller, healthier and mostly in professional or skilled trade jobs. The past is often seen through a sepia tinted idealized slant. The past was full of suffering and brutality. Even warfare was just as brutal - in ancient times, Caesar slaughtered 1-2% of the global population in Gaul. In the 17th century, marauding armies picked regions cleaned and left thousands to starve.
- deeptechdreamer 2y ago
  War, disease, famine were the norm for eras past. For those who lived during those times, I reckon their level of perceived suffering was no more than ours today. Humans are tragically skilled at adapting to new standards and shifting the threshold of struggle. People today get frustrated over a delayed plane departure likely just as much as people in the past were over a storm delaying their caravan by a few days. As much of a proponent of technology as I am, I often reflect on whether we are truly bending the arc of suffering in a positive direction, or if it has remained far more constant than we’d like to believe.
  - Iulioh 2y ago
    Everyone is unsatisfied with what they have but some people are more right than others in the complaints they make.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    When the English army or paramilitary militia came to burn the ancestors out of house and home to make room for settlers, I doubt their level of suffering was “adjusted”. If they were lucky, they starved in the woods, hiding like animals.
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  >too small plots of farmland Small plots are _still_ a problem for most people . 'We' sort off worked around the small plots problem by having the industrial revolution come along and then made jobs available for those who had only small plots. Hypothetically, if every human had an equal part of earth, relatively fewer would have been in the pathetic state that you mentioned in the per-industrial era, and even less so in the post-industrialization era.
orochimaaru 2y ago
Errr - not true. Pre Industrial Revolution you were either a serf or a lord. There were a few in the renaissance times who started getting an education and planting the seed of the Industrial Revolution. By and large your existence pre Industrial Revolution would have been at the mercy of your local lord. Yes, there are negatives to the Industrial Revolution we have to overcome. But it’s a net positive for everyone. You’re welcome to fantasize being someone’s slave. I’m not.
mixmastamyk 2y ago
Sounds like a unabomber quote?
- luma 2y ago
  It’s the introduction to the Unabomber manifesto.
- eric_h 2y ago
  Indeed: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/unabom-manifesto-1.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national...

by Lammy 2y ago

eastbound 2y ago

I don’t know. People have been living without reliable access to food and potable water, not even talking about sore deformations on their faces, for a thousand years. But somehow their lives were fulfilling?

throwaway894345 2y ago
Yeah, I don’t see many of the people criticizing the Industrial Revolution opting into pre-industrial existences. I’m pretty minimalist, and I’ve grown up around the Amish and even they prefer to avail themselves of technology where they can. I think there’s a fair amount of romanticizing about a pre-industrial lifestyle. This obviously isn’t to argue that we should all live maximally consumerist lifestyles; I don’t think that’s true either.
swayvil 2y ago
>sore deformations Is that what's referred to as a "wen"? (Onomatopoetic term, that. Think of how you'd talk with a golfball in your mouth)

njtransit 2y ago

Do you really think life was fulfilling before the Industrial Revolution? Most men toiled, watched their children and wives die, before dying at a young age themselves. Where was the fulfillment, exactly? You’re only able to contemplate that life could possibly be fulfilling because of the Industrial Revolution.

yulker 2y ago
Gotta look past the agricultural revolution, not just shortly before industrial revolution
checkyoursudo 2y ago
There was no art, poetry, craftsmanship, skill, talent, fame, friendship (or relationships of any kind), flavor, joy, celebration, or creativity before the Industrial Revolution. Gotcha.

Spooky23 2y ago

Speak for yourself. My ancestors pre-industrial revolution were half starved tenant farmers making a subsistence living on too small plots of farmland in colonized Ireland, subject to random slaughter when the English changed their plans. Now, our extended family is prosperous in the US, Australia and Ireland. We’re taller, healthier and mostly in professional or skilled trade jobs. The past is often seen through a sepia tinted idealized slant. The past was full of suffering and brutality. Even warfare was just as brutal - in ancient times, Caesar slaughtered 1-2% of the global population in Gaul. In the 17th century, marauding armies picked regions cleaned and left thousands to starve.

deeptechdreamer 2y ago
War, disease, famine were the norm for eras past. For those who lived during those times, I reckon their level of perceived suffering was no more than ours today. Humans are tragically skilled at adapting to new standards and shifting the threshold of struggle. People today get frustrated over a delayed plane departure likely just as much as people in the past were over a storm delaying their caravan by a few days. As much of a proponent of technology as I am, I often reflect on whether we are truly bending the arc of suffering in a positive direction, or if it has remained far more constant than we’d like to believe.
- Iulioh 2y ago
  Everyone is unsatisfied with what they have but some people are more right than others in the complaints they make.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  When the English army or paramilitary militia came to burn the ancestors out of house and home to make room for settlers, I doubt their level of suffering was “adjusted”. If they were lucky, they starved in the woods, hiding like animals.
dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
>too small plots of farmland Small plots are _still_ a problem for most people . 'We' sort off worked around the small plots problem by having the industrial revolution come along and then made jobs available for those who had only small plots. Hypothetically, if every human had an equal part of earth, relatively fewer would have been in the pathetic state that you mentioned in the per-industrial era, and even less so in the post-industrialization era.

orochimaaru 2y ago

Errr - not true. Pre Industrial Revolution you were either a serf or a lord. There were a few in the renaissance times who started getting an education and planting the seed of the Industrial Revolution. By and large your existence pre Industrial Revolution would have been at the mercy of your local lord. Yes, there are negatives to the Industrial Revolution we have to overcome. But it’s a net positive for everyone. You’re welcome to fantasize being someone’s slave. I’m not.

mixmastamyk 2y ago

Sounds like a unabomber quote?

luma 2y ago
It’s the introduction to the Unabomber manifesto.
eric_h 2y ago
Indeed: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national/unabom-manifesto-1.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/national...