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I don't think any such regulation can have teeth or actually protect anyone. The mechanism by which data is abused is a moving target that will shift with any r

by advael 2y ago

I don't think any such regulation can have teeth or actually protect anyone. The mechanism by which data is abused is a moving target that will shift with any regulation you throw at it. It will go to black markets, be reshaped through loopholes, or done in plausibly deniable ways by entities that can bog any legal challenge down in technicalities indefinitely, while still probably making more doing it than they'll be fined for, and every loophole will require new regulation to close it. The only way to regulate data collection with teeth is to make the collection itself illegal, and actually enforce those laws

ideashower 2y ago
You are, in too many words, essentially describing data minimization principles. But I don't believe that the existence of black markets means we shouldn't regulate legal markets. Even if it's true that bad actors would try to find new ways to exploit data as regulations change, this doesn't negate the value of regulation entirely. Lots of industries face similar challenges (e.g. financial regulation, environmental protection) yet still benefit from regulatory frameworks. Furthermore, the existence of loopholes is an argument for crafting more robust and adaptable regulations, and knowledgeable bodies to govern them--not for abandoning regulation altogether.
- dylan604 2y ago
  I feel like we're precariously close to proposing a War on Data. I suspect it will be as successful as every previous War on....
  - photonthug 2y ago
    Drug/terror networks are composed of anonymous semi-independent actors without clear command/control hierarchies. That's nothing at all like businesses with registered addresses, clearly defined executives who also have addresses, thousands of employees who officially declare this as part of a legit taxable income stream. Every one of those non-anonymous people have to comply with subpoenas, etc. Why would you even make this comparison?
- advael 2y ago
  Yea, I am. I think minimizing the data that can legally be retained about people is the best policy both on principle and practicality here. Yes, there will always be black markets as long as there are incentives. But it's much harder to prosecute mishandling than retaining it in the first place
  - ideashower 2y ago
    I generally agree. Case in point: all that is transpiring with Telegram, compared to Signal.

by advael 2y ago

ideashower 2y ago

You are, in too many words, essentially describing data minimization principles. But I don't believe that the existence of black markets means we shouldn't regulate legal markets. Even if it's true that bad actors would try to find new ways to exploit data as regulations change, this doesn't negate the value of regulation entirely. Lots of industries face similar challenges (e.g. financial regulation, environmental protection) yet still benefit from regulatory frameworks. Furthermore, the existence of loopholes is an argument for crafting more robust and adaptable regulations, and knowledgeable bodies to govern them--not for abandoning regulation altogether.

dylan604 2y ago
I feel like we're precariously close to proposing a War on Data. I suspect it will be as successful as every previous War on....
- photonthug 2y ago
  Drug/terror networks are composed of anonymous semi-independent actors without clear command/control hierarchies. That's nothing at all like businesses with registered addresses, clearly defined executives who also have addresses, thousands of employees who officially declare this as part of a legit taxable income stream. Every one of those non-anonymous people have to comply with subpoenas, etc. Why would you even make this comparison?
advael 2y ago
Yea, I am. I think minimizing the data that can legally be retained about people is the best policy both on principle and practicality here. Yes, there will always be black markets as long as there are incentives. But it's much harder to prosecute mishandling than retaining it in the first place
- ideashower 2y ago
  I generally agree. Case in point: all that is transpiring with Telegram, compared to Signal.