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> There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools" I don't care in what they bel

> There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools" I don't care in what they believe or how they explain they need in the total control over you. In fact, it's just a slavery, and I'm sure internally they know that and they like that. For some people it's the meaning of life to achieve that kind of power over other people. Unfortunately, a lot of such people achieve this goal nowadays.

poincaredisk 2y ago
You assume a lot of bad intent where there is (usualy) none. I worked with people related to cybercrime investigation a lot, and they are always driven by idea to help people. But when you see for a hundredth time that a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam, you start being angry at the criminals. And when you invest months of your life to locate the perpetrator, and the investigation is thwarted by, let's say, encrypted chats, you start blaming the tools. Now, I (obviously) don't agree with this, just trying to explain how something like chat control could be proposed in good faith by someone.
- dandanua 2y ago
  > a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam I thought the banking system was designed to reverse transactions (unlike cryptocurrencies). Why do you need finding the scammer for that?
  - mrtksn 2y ago
    Scammers don't keep their money in the account they used to scam people into wiring their money in. A common case is to use other people's accounts(sometimes stolen, sometimes rented) or purchase something like crypto, gold or anything else that is expensive and easy to move. Often times the seller also doesn't know they are selling to a scammer, there's this technique where the scammers will give the account number of a seller to their victim, the victim will wire the money and the scammers at the same time will be pretending to be buyers and claim that they just wired the money and therefore the transaction is complete and they leave with the scammed money laundered in form of something valuable.
    - dandanua 2y ago
      So, in short, scammers can launder money in minutes, but investigators need months to track them and reverse everything. Yet, I don't think ChatControl will solve anything.
      - mrtksn 2y ago
        I agree, it won't solve anything. Maybe in short term some idiots will get caught but the criminals will quickly learn their lesson and use other tools and avoid the surveilled ones.

poincaredisk 2y ago

You assume a lot of bad intent where there is (usualy) none. I worked with people related to cybercrime investigation a lot, and they are always driven by idea to help people. But when you see for a hundredth time that a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam, you start being angry at the criminals. And when you invest months of your life to locate the perpetrator, and the investigation is thwarted by, let's say, encrypted chats, you start blaming the tools. Now, I (obviously) don't agree with this, just trying to explain how something like chat control could be proposed in good faith by someone.

dandanua 2y ago
> a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam I thought the banking system was designed to reverse transactions (unlike cryptocurrencies). Why do you need finding the scammer for that?
- mrtksn 2y ago
  Scammers don't keep their money in the account they used to scam people into wiring their money in. A common case is to use other people's accounts(sometimes stolen, sometimes rented) or purchase something like crypto, gold or anything else that is expensive and easy to move. Often times the seller also doesn't know they are selling to a scammer, there's this technique where the scammers will give the account number of a seller to their victim, the victim will wire the money and the scammers at the same time will be pretending to be buyers and claim that they just wired the money and therefore the transaction is complete and they leave with the scammed money laundered in form of something valuable.
  - dandanua 2y ago
    So, in short, scammers can launder money in minutes, but investigators need months to track them and reverse everything. Yet, I don't think ChatControl will solve anything.
    - mrtksn 2y ago
      I agree, it won't solve anything. Maybe in short term some idiots will get caught but the criminals will quickly learn their lesson and use other tools and avoid the surveilled ones.