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> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visi

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US also has the Rural-Urban divide. > he gets the votes from uneducated people Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble.

TheChaplain 2y ago
> Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? Very strange attitude. I voted while I was abroad for two decades, because my family and friends were still there, and I wanted the best from them.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Your family and friends know, what is best for them and can vote for themselves. Meanwhile, you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation; you are going to have one of game of telephone one (I know, I also lived abroad for a while). As a result, you might do more damage than helping.
  - buran77 2y ago
    > you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation You're walking a path you're almost guaranteed not properly equipped for. Probably nobody is but knowing not to charge ahead would already mean a lot. If having a clear idea about the local situation is a prerequisite then what happens with locals exposed to misinformation? Do they lose the right to vote? Do you test people in advance to evaluate their level of understanding? If they vote for populist measures that are clearly unsustainable did they show a good understanding of the situation? What happens if you're abroad but coming back in a year and are expected to live with a bad situation you could have helped avoid? Can you claim "sorry, I wasn't allowed to vote so the rules don't apply to me"? What about when you live abroad but (some of) the laws of your home country in which you're not allowed to vote still apply to you? And more importantly, if you're living abroad and you can't vote in your home country because you're away but you can't vote in your country of residence because you're a foreigner, what happens to your right to vote? This right is given to citizens of a country just like many other rights, like the right to private ownership. If one can be taken away due to lack of proximity, can the other? Can that car or house that you haven't used in a year be taken away? What if you as a local didn't exercise your right to vote, should it be taken away because you don't need it? > you might do more damage You might too.
    - simion314 2y ago
      My initial comment was not clear, by I am referring of Hungarian citizens that are part of other countries like Romania, this people do not have relatives in Hungary, never lived there, will not move there.
      - vetinari 2y ago
        Is it still a thing? AFAIK the neighbor countries protested against it as a passport of convenience. Some even made laws, that when you accept such a citizenship, you are going to lose your previous one. That curbed the enthusiasm for such citizenship rather significantly.
        simion314 2y ago
        It is still a thing, Romania also does the same thing where we give citizenship to Romanians on territories we lost like R. Moldova so would be hypocritical for Romania to complain about Hungary, ,my personal opinion is that is not democratic if someone votes but they or their family are not affected by the vote. It would be like some jerk In UK gifts citizenship to people in ex colonies and then those people as gratitude wll vote for the jerk.
    - vetinari 2y ago
      Slow down, you are taking it way to seriously, and skipped to another rail already. Nobody ever even remotely suggested to go where you describe. That when you live abroad you are not familiar with local situation is a fact; you get to hear only partial, selected info. Maybe you should try it sometime. I did. > What happens if you're abroad but coming back in a year and are expected to live with a bad situation you could have helped avoid? Can you claim "sorry, I wasn't allowed to vote so the rules don't apply to me"? What about when you live abroad but (some of) the laws of your home country in which you're not allowed to vote still apply to you? Here, again on another track. Nobody is ever going to figure out, when you live when you vote. The difference is showing up in the polling station inside the country or not. I.e. with not being able to vote via mail or embassy. Again, in our country, we have several different elections (just like in other countries). But in some, you have to vote locally, in others, you can do via correspondence. So when all of them are local only, no harm done. If you can bring your ass to the polling station, that's enough. Nobody is taking your right to vote, it is on you to decide, whether it is worth to you to exercise your right, or not.
simion314 2y ago
>Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble. Right, the peasants with no education and only watching state TV are clearly the ones without a bias, their children that went to university, got a good job, know english are the one brainwashed by CIA/Israel and the evil LGBTQ. I read so many cases of educated Hungarians or Russians ashamed of the level of brainwashing of their parents.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Yes, because the friculins (as in free-cool-in) in their reddit bubbles are so much more clever. Case in point; any discussion involving policits here, on hn. Politologs are face palming at the naivety, when they see an extract.
  - simion314 2y ago
    If you would know Romanian I would share with you links my parents share with me and have you defend that bullshit to prove that my parents are the correct ones when they fall for the online bullshit like medical stuff (or you will claim that this less educated people are wrong when they fall for medical bullshit but when is about election they are correct). Latest link from my father was a clip from some TV channel where some pretend doctor was claiming something super vague that is scientifically incorrect, this time I ignored it since I was not in the mood to try to find evidence that the guy is not a real doctor, that the vague shit is bullshit and find scientific shit to clarify things, and all would need to be in Romanian so he can understand. For this old generation if is on TV or internet and some scammer pretends is a doctor and uses a few medical words they will fall for it, is the same with politics especially blaiming bad stuff on various groups, that stuff works well on the internet. Give me an example where your or a friend uneducated pessant parents were actually correct in this kind of topics then their educated children that know more languages and read more media.
wkat4242 2y ago
Yeah I wish that within the EU we could just vote for the country we live in rather than the one we were born in. It would make so much more sense.
- vetinari 2y ago
  You can, in the communnal (local) elections. For the parliamentary, it is here for a reason. To prevent voting touristic. The delay of several years -- you have to live several years in the other country -- serves exactly that.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    But there is no delay, even if I've been in Spain for 10 years I still can't vote for the parliament there. I know about the local ones but it's not that important IMO. I could go to the trouble of obtaining Spanish citizenship after 10 years but it is incredibly difficult and long. I understand the problem of touristic voting but then they should let me vote here after 3 years or so. Right now I can only vote for the Dutch government which I have nothing to do with in my life (and which is an extreme-right regime since the last election anyway)

TheChaplain 2y ago

> Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? Very strange attitude. I voted while I was abroad for two decades, because my family and friends were still there, and I wanted the best from them.

vetinari 2y ago
Your family and friends know, what is best for them and can vote for themselves. Meanwhile, you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation; you are going to have one of game of telephone one (I know, I also lived abroad for a while). As a result, you might do more damage than helping.
- buran77 2y ago
  > you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation You're walking a path you're almost guaranteed not properly equipped for. Probably nobody is but knowing not to charge ahead would already mean a lot. If having a clear idea about the local situation is a prerequisite then what happens with locals exposed to misinformation? Do they lose the right to vote? Do you test people in advance to evaluate their level of understanding? If they vote for populist measures that are clearly unsustainable did they show a good understanding of the situation? What happens if you're abroad but coming back in a year and are expected to live with a bad situation you could have helped avoid? Can you claim "sorry, I wasn't allowed to vote so the rules don't apply to me"? What about when you live abroad but (some of) the laws of your home country in which you're not allowed to vote still apply to you? And more importantly, if you're living abroad and you can't vote in your home country because you're away but you can't vote in your country of residence because you're a foreigner, what happens to your right to vote? This right is given to citizens of a country just like many other rights, like the right to private ownership. If one can be taken away due to lack of proximity, can the other? Can that car or house that you haven't used in a year be taken away? What if you as a local didn't exercise your right to vote, should it be taken away because you don't need it? > you might do more damage You might too.
  - simion314 2y ago
    My initial comment was not clear, by I am referring of Hungarian citizens that are part of other countries like Romania, this people do not have relatives in Hungary, never lived there, will not move there.
    - vetinari 2y ago
      Is it still a thing? AFAIK the neighbor countries protested against it as a passport of convenience. Some even made laws, that when you accept such a citizenship, you are going to lose your previous one. That curbed the enthusiasm for such citizenship rather significantly.
      - simion314 2y ago
        It is still a thing, Romania also does the same thing where we give citizenship to Romanians on territories we lost like R. Moldova so would be hypocritical for Romania to complain about Hungary, ,my personal opinion is that is not democratic if someone votes but they or their family are not affected by the vote. It would be like some jerk In UK gifts citizenship to people in ex colonies and then those people as gratitude wll vote for the jerk.
  - vetinari 2y ago
    Slow down, you are taking it way to seriously, and skipped to another rail already. Nobody ever even remotely suggested to go where you describe. That when you live abroad you are not familiar with local situation is a fact; you get to hear only partial, selected info. Maybe you should try it sometime. I did. > What happens if you're abroad but coming back in a year and are expected to live with a bad situation you could have helped avoid? Can you claim "sorry, I wasn't allowed to vote so the rules don't apply to me"? What about when you live abroad but (some of) the laws of your home country in which you're not allowed to vote still apply to you? Here, again on another track. Nobody is ever going to figure out, when you live when you vote. The difference is showing up in the polling station inside the country or not. I.e. with not being able to vote via mail or embassy. Again, in our country, we have several different elections (just like in other countries). But in some, you have to vote locally, in others, you can do via correspondence. So when all of them are local only, no harm done. If you can bring your ass to the polling station, that's enough. Nobody is taking your right to vote, it is on you to decide, whether it is worth to you to exercise your right, or not.

simion314 2y ago

>Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble. Right, the peasants with no education and only watching state TV are clearly the ones without a bias, their children that went to university, got a good job, know english are the one brainwashed by CIA/Israel and the evil LGBTQ. I read so many cases of educated Hungarians or Russians ashamed of the level of brainwashing of their parents.

vetinari 2y ago
Yes, because the friculins (as in free-cool-in) in their reddit bubbles are so much more clever. Case in point; any discussion involving policits here, on hn. Politologs are face palming at the naivety, when they see an extract.
- simion314 2y ago
  If you would know Romanian I would share with you links my parents share with me and have you defend that bullshit to prove that my parents are the correct ones when they fall for the online bullshit like medical stuff (or you will claim that this less educated people are wrong when they fall for medical bullshit but when is about election they are correct). Latest link from my father was a clip from some TV channel where some pretend doctor was claiming something super vague that is scientifically incorrect, this time I ignored it since I was not in the mood to try to find evidence that the guy is not a real doctor, that the vague shit is bullshit and find scientific shit to clarify things, and all would need to be in Romanian so he can understand. For this old generation if is on TV or internet and some scammer pretends is a doctor and uses a few medical words they will fall for it, is the same with politics especially blaiming bad stuff on various groups, that stuff works well on the internet. Give me an example where your or a friend uneducated pessant parents were actually correct in this kind of topics then their educated children that know more languages and read more media.

wkat4242 2y ago

Yeah I wish that within the EU we could just vote for the country we live in rather than the one we were born in. It would make so much more sense.

vetinari 2y ago
You can, in the communnal (local) elections. For the parliamentary, it is here for a reason. To prevent voting touristic. The delay of several years -- you have to live several years in the other country -- serves exactly that.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  But there is no delay, even if I've been in Spain for 10 years I still can't vote for the parliament there. I know about the local ones but it's not that important IMO. I could go to the trouble of obtaining Spanish citizenship after 10 years but it is incredibly difficult and long. I understand the problem of touristic voting but then they should let me vote here after 3 years or so. Right now I can only vote for the Dutch government which I have nothing to do with in my life (and which is an extreme-right regime since the last election anyway)