4 ms·

Disagree. Hooks with all their warts are superior way to share functionality over anything found in the class land.

mdhb 2y ago
I find it weird that it’s supposedly such a huge improvement and yet people don’t seem particularly keen to copy the idea into other serious frameworks for the most part. Looks vaguely like Stockholm Syndrome from the outside
- nikkwong 2y ago
  Yeah, hooks totally suck—no question about it. There simply aren't other facets of other front end or back end frameworks that are so widely criticized to the same level that hooks are. Which means they're at best controversial, and at worst they're a poor design choice and add mud and confusion to the framework. I find that hooks are fine when you want to do simple web-app stuff, like fetch from a db, post some data back. But once your effects get more complicated, like using web sockets, items with retries, play or queue async audio clips that have to be state managed with hooks—the house of cards comes crashing down and they are an absolute nightmare to work with. They're such an anti-pattern that useRef has to be repurposed from a thing that was meant for holding a reference to an HTML element to a new thing that is used to hold state that doesn't trigger a lifecycle update—and there are many paradigms that you can find yourself in where the only path forward is to use refs, along side and inside of your otherwise lifecycle updated hooks. What kind of cluster f*#& is that.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    It will sound like “you’re holding it wrong” argument. But most issues I heard about hooks is when people don’t isolate their React UI modules from other modules in the application. Instead they use the library/platform api directly in their components which is guaranteed to be a mess. Hooks are way to integrate your UI with the rest of the world, not to manage it. Things like using web sockets, playing audio, etc, should be in external modules which you connect to with hooks, and those modules should be designed with React lifecycle and state in mind. An example is react-query, which does a great job of adapting “fetching from an API” use case to the react world.
- cageface 2y ago
  Because hooks are both a great innovation and a pain in the ass at the same time. They make reusing and composing logic between components easier than any other framework I've used. But all the manual dependency tracking is a real hassle and is crying out for language-level support, to which this compiler brings us a step closer. Hooks do seem to be gaining some traction in Flutter, FWIW.

mdhb 2y ago

I find it weird that it’s supposedly such a huge improvement and yet people don’t seem particularly keen to copy the idea into other serious frameworks for the most part. Looks vaguely like Stockholm Syndrome from the outside

nikkwong 2y ago
Yeah, hooks totally suck—no question about it. There simply aren't other facets of other front end or back end frameworks that are so widely criticized to the same level that hooks are. Which means they're at best controversial, and at worst they're a poor design choice and add mud and confusion to the framework. I find that hooks are fine when you want to do simple web-app stuff, like fetch from a db, post some data back. But once your effects get more complicated, like using web sockets, items with retries, play or queue async audio clips that have to be state managed with hooks—the house of cards comes crashing down and they are an absolute nightmare to work with. They're such an anti-pattern that useRef has to be repurposed from a thing that was meant for holding a reference to an HTML element to a new thing that is used to hold state that doesn't trigger a lifecycle update—and there are many paradigms that you can find yourself in where the only path forward is to use refs, along side and inside of your otherwise lifecycle updated hooks. What kind of cluster f*#& is that.
- skydhash 2y ago
  It will sound like “you’re holding it wrong” argument. But most issues I heard about hooks is when people don’t isolate their React UI modules from other modules in the application. Instead they use the library/platform api directly in their components which is guaranteed to be a mess. Hooks are way to integrate your UI with the rest of the world, not to manage it. Things like using web sockets, playing audio, etc, should be in external modules which you connect to with hooks, and those modules should be designed with React lifecycle and state in mind. An example is react-query, which does a great job of adapting “fetching from an API” use case to the react world.
cageface 2y ago
Because hooks are both a great innovation and a pain in the ass at the same time. They make reusing and composing logic between components easier than any other framework I've used. But all the manual dependency tracking is a real hassle and is crying out for language-level support, to which this compiler brings us a step closer. Hooks do seem to be gaining some traction in Flutter, FWIW.