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The US has ceased to remain a first world country. It is not a third world country yet, but it's getting there. Corruption and self-interest at all levels of go

The US has ceased to remain a first world country. It is not a third world country yet, but it's getting there. Corruption and self-interest at all levels of government has supplanted the pursuit of becoming a better nation. It remains to be seen whether this extreme rise of self-interest at the expense of the collective/national/global/cosmic interest ultimately succeeds or fails.

hermannj314 2y ago
This is a story about a single private company, the US is very much a 1st world country as we have a working meat inspection program, independent journalist covering the topic, alternate products from competing vendors, and numerous lively and open discussions involving concerned citizens. How exactly does this story support the conclusion we are becoming corrupt?
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  > we have a working meat inspection program Huh. That's an abject lie. If there were a working inspection program, this would never have happened. It wouldn't even have come close.
  - ics 2y ago
    The best case is that it never happens. The second best case is that it’s caught as soon as it happens and stopped then. The third best case is that it’s caught some time after it happens and stopped before it has any external consequences (people getting sick). The fourth best case is that it’s caught some time after it happens but only stopped after external consequences. Etcetera etcetera. Throw in another dimension of punishment besides just stopping operations and it gets more complex. With a little imagination, the worst cases are much worse than any of the above. We can be dissatisfied with the actual circumstances but still recognize the nuanced factors which might make up a “working” system.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      In your description, nine people dying, 57 hospitalized, is the "fourth best outcome", and added "well, there are much worse scenarios" (and not just around the raw numbers, but the progression of events). I am struggling to comprehend what these much worse scenarios are, beyond "we just say fuck it and let them continue to sell the stuff"?
    - creer 2y ago
      It was not caught because of inspections, or because someone at the plant said that maybe it was time to fix this. It was only caught because people got sick, aka died. That's not "working".
- whoknowsidont 2y ago
  >we have a working meat inspection program ???? The topic of discussion is how a meat plant was allowed to operate despite egregiously failing not just safety rules and procedures but just plain common sense. You consider that working?
  - thehappypm 2y ago
    Yes? Failures being identified? Consequences for the failure? If your definition of “first world country” is no company ever cuts corners, well, name one. It’s probably just Singapore.
    - whoknowsidont 2y ago
      The failures were identified after many people got sick and there was no choice but to start an "RCA." I would remind you that these "failures" were not some black swan level of event that we can't foresee, it was plain and direct negligence. The rotten mean was literally, and I mean quite literally, piling up. You are being EXTREMELY outright dishonest in your perspectives here. I don't say this lightly, there is no possibility of reconciling your statements and the facts of the case.
      - f38zf5vdt 2y ago
        Most first world countries have long and vivid histories of food safety scandals. In the US in the 2000s, the PCA comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_Corporation_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_Corporation_of_America The UK had mad cow disease, Italy continues to deal with diluted and falsified olive oil, the EU has had repeated horse meat scandals. Most recently Japan had a health food supplement scandal in which many people died.
        whoknowsidont 2y ago
        Not sure what your point is? Especially when the comparisons aren't really proportional. I don't consider letting rotten meat pileup an example of a working inspection process, which is what I specifically responded to, first world or not.
nickpeterson 2y ago
Nah, don’t bet against us.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  I'm sure those in the Roman Empire said the same thing.
  - nickpeterson 2y ago
    They were right for an awfully long time.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      Back then, communication and movement were slow, but now they aren't. The point is that time is now compressed. Things happen much faster and at an accelerating pace. The only thing that is still slow is the adaptability of the human mind to new ideas, because on average, it requires older generations to die.
s0ss 2y ago
I don’t think first and third world countries is a useful metaphor any more and It certainly is out of place here. This is one company that is gross. I am Not sure why one article about one gross company should stand as an example of an entire country’s decline. Weird.
refurb 2y ago
It’s amazing how social media can create a picture that doesn’t exist huh? This is a single plant among hundreds in the US. If I go to a doctors office that doesn’t follow sterile procedures, would you call it a 3rd world country? Even knowing there are thousands that do follow regulations? That would be a silly conclusion.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  You don't know or understand how it's supposed to work. Every plant is supposed to be routinely inspected, and not be allowed to operate if it is not sanitary. If the inspection process didn't work for this one plant, it means it is not guaranteed to work for any plant. Basically, it has been left up to the goodness of the plants to operate themselves how they like. That's how it is expected in the third world.
  - refurb 2y ago
    Ahhh, I see where you're confused. You don't know how it works in the third world. No, in the third world, inspections aren't even done. Laws are created that aren't enforced, inspection teams aren't funded, and inspectors are bribed. None of that is happening in the US. And no, constant inspections is not how it's done. Even in Europe, it's random inspections and mostly self-regulation.

hermannj314 2y ago

This is a story about a single private company, the US is very much a 1st world country as we have a working meat inspection program, independent journalist covering the topic, alternate products from competing vendors, and numerous lively and open discussions involving concerned citizens. How exactly does this story support the conclusion we are becoming corrupt?

OutOfHere 2y ago
> we have a working meat inspection program Huh. That's an abject lie. If there were a working inspection program, this would never have happened. It wouldn't even have come close.
- ics 2y ago
  The best case is that it never happens. The second best case is that it’s caught as soon as it happens and stopped then. The third best case is that it’s caught some time after it happens and stopped before it has any external consequences (people getting sick). The fourth best case is that it’s caught some time after it happens but only stopped after external consequences. Etcetera etcetera. Throw in another dimension of punishment besides just stopping operations and it gets more complex. With a little imagination, the worst cases are much worse than any of the above. We can be dissatisfied with the actual circumstances but still recognize the nuanced factors which might make up a “working” system.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    In your description, nine people dying, 57 hospitalized, is the "fourth best outcome", and added "well, there are much worse scenarios" (and not just around the raw numbers, but the progression of events). I am struggling to comprehend what these much worse scenarios are, beyond "we just say fuck it and let them continue to sell the stuff"?
  - creer 2y ago
    It was not caught because of inspections, or because someone at the plant said that maybe it was time to fix this. It was only caught because people got sick, aka died. That's not "working".
whoknowsidont 2y ago
>we have a working meat inspection program ???? The topic of discussion is how a meat plant was allowed to operate despite egregiously failing not just safety rules and procedures but just plain common sense. You consider that working?
- thehappypm 2y ago
  Yes? Failures being identified? Consequences for the failure? If your definition of “first world country” is no company ever cuts corners, well, name one. It’s probably just Singapore.
  - whoknowsidont 2y ago
    The failures were identified after many people got sick and there was no choice but to start an "RCA." I would remind you that these "failures" were not some black swan level of event that we can't foresee, it was plain and direct negligence. The rotten mean was literally, and I mean quite literally, piling up. You are being EXTREMELY outright dishonest in your perspectives here. I don't say this lightly, there is no possibility of reconciling your statements and the facts of the case.
    - f38zf5vdt 2y ago
      Most first world countries have long and vivid histories of food safety scandals. In the US in the 2000s, the PCA comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_Corporation_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_Corporation_of_America The UK had mad cow disease, Italy continues to deal with diluted and falsified olive oil, the EU has had repeated horse meat scandals. Most recently Japan had a health food supplement scandal in which many people died.
      - whoknowsidont 2y ago
        Not sure what your point is? Especially when the comparisons aren't really proportional. I don't consider letting rotten meat pileup an example of a working inspection process, which is what I specifically responded to, first world or not.

nickpeterson 2y ago

Nah, don’t bet against us.

OutOfHere 2y ago
I'm sure those in the Roman Empire said the same thing.
- nickpeterson 2y ago
  They were right for an awfully long time.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    Back then, communication and movement were slow, but now they aren't. The point is that time is now compressed. Things happen much faster and at an accelerating pace. The only thing that is still slow is the adaptability of the human mind to new ideas, because on average, it requires older generations to die.

s0ss 2y ago

I don’t think first and third world countries is a useful metaphor any more and It certainly is out of place here. This is one company that is gross. I am Not sure why one article about one gross company should stand as an example of an entire country’s decline. Weird.

refurb 2y ago

It’s amazing how social media can create a picture that doesn’t exist huh? This is a single plant among hundreds in the US. If I go to a doctors office that doesn’t follow sterile procedures, would you call it a 3rd world country? Even knowing there are thousands that do follow regulations? That would be a silly conclusion.

OutOfHere 2y ago
You don't know or understand how it's supposed to work. Every plant is supposed to be routinely inspected, and not be allowed to operate if it is not sanitary. If the inspection process didn't work for this one plant, it means it is not guaranteed to work for any plant. Basically, it has been left up to the goodness of the plants to operate themselves how they like. That's how it is expected in the third world.
- refurb 2y ago
  Ahhh, I see where you're confused. You don't know how it works in the third world. No, in the third world, inspections aren't even done. Laws are created that aren't enforced, inspection teams aren't funded, and inspectors are bribed. None of that is happening in the US. And no, constant inspections is not how it's done. Even in Europe, it's random inspections and mostly self-regulation.