3 ms·

Why not Marxism and democracy?

slowmovintarget 2y ago
That has been tried, but any shred of democratic process ends up giving way to collectivist control requiring a bureaucratic dictatorship. One can only conclude they are incompatible.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  How is that different than the small cohort of ultra wealthy driving policy, both directly and through soft influence? It’s all sausage making, pick your flavor. I don’t believe such a conclusion is forgone.
  - daedrdev 2y ago
    Our current system has objectively delivered massive economic growth and standard of living improvements.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      It has delivered for the shareholder class while driving down fertility rates through unfavorable economic macros. “Growth for whom”? Growth has proven valuable primarily to the wealthiest, who continue to demand more. Good luck with future squeezing as structural demographic declines are locked in. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/08/5e488d2474cf-japans-births-fall-57-to-350000-in-jan-june-as-marriages-decline.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/08/5e488d2474cf-japa... (Japan) https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-population-decline-getting-close-irreversible https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-popula... (China) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139 (South Korea) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/20240525.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/... (US)
      - daedrdev 2y ago
        Fertility rates have been decrease with improved standard of living, and the poorest have the most children. Hungary gives 5% of gdp to people who have children, yet have barely stopped the decline in births because of this. Other countries have similarly failed.
- camdat 2y ago
  Why deal in abstract? Any specific examples you'd like to point to?
- hotpotatoe 2y ago
  Where and when? And how is allowing capitalists horde wealth and power incompatible with democracy? I’d say having workers in more control is more democratic than the top down power structure of capitalism

That has been tried, but any shred of democratic process ends up giving way to collectivist control requiring a bureaucratic dictatorship. One can only conclude they are incompatible.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
How is that different than the small cohort of ultra wealthy driving policy, both directly and through soft influence? It’s all sausage making, pick your flavor. I don’t believe such a conclusion is forgone.
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Our current system has objectively delivered massive economic growth and standard of living improvements.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    It has delivered for the shareholder class while driving down fertility rates through unfavorable economic macros. “Growth for whom”? Growth has proven valuable primarily to the wealthiest, who continue to demand more. Good luck with future squeezing as structural demographic declines are locked in. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/08/5e488d2474cf-japans-births-fall-57-to-350000-in-jan-june-as-marriages-decline.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/08/5e488d2474cf-japa... (Japan) https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-population-decline-getting-close-irreversible https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-popula... (China) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139 (South Korea) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/20240525.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2024/... (US)
    - daedrdev 2y ago
      Fertility rates have been decrease with improved standard of living, and the poorest have the most children. Hungary gives 5% of gdp to people who have children, yet have barely stopped the decline in births because of this. Other countries have similarly failed.
camdat 2y ago
Why deal in abstract? Any specific examples you'd like to point to?
hotpotatoe 2y ago
Where and when? And how is allowing capitalists horde wealth and power incompatible with democracy? I’d say having workers in more control is more democratic than the top down power structure of capitalism