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Can anyone speak to the motivations of this judge? Does he have a valid/legal/moral point under Brazilian law with attempts to ban those accounts on X? Or is h

Can anyone speak to the motivations of this judge? Does he have a valid/legal/moral point under Brazilian law with attempts to ban those accounts on X? Or is he just a toady for da Silva?

outside1234 2y ago
Yes - there is a law that you need to have legal representation in Brazil and Musk is just flouting the law. So shutdown it is for Musk
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  That came after the judge's order to block the accounts. That is a secondary issue, not the primary one. On that topic, can you speak to the judge's orders to freeze the bank accounts of X's legal representative, even after she had resigned? What's the deal there?
  - troupo 2y ago
    Musk is happy to comply with blocking anything and anyone when it suits him: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404534
    - silverliver 2y ago
      Sure but that does not answer GP's question.
- nomdep 2y ago
  shutdown it is because he didn’t agree on collaborating with a tyrant. Would you do it?
  - polygamous_bat 2y ago
    Elon loves collaborating with tyrants though [1-2], so that theory doesn't check out. [1] https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja... [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena...
cowsup 2y ago
The core facts are: Brazil demanded information regarding Brazilian users, and believed it was in their right to do so. X believed that the requests did not comply with Brazilian laws, and refused. Neither side yielded, so X closed up shop in Brazil, and, as a result, Brazil is blocking access to X.
- Fabricio20 2y ago
  There is actually more to this here, it was not just information about Brazilian users, the request was actually to shadowban (block without notifying the users) specific accounts. Some of those accounts happen to be political opposition (actual politicians too) to this judge and his party in general. I believe twitter or musk himself leaked all court documents when this request came in. Twitter/X closed shop because, after stating that they would not comply with these requests, the judge threatened to jail every Twitter/X employee in brazil in retaliation. So to avoid putting these employees/people in danger they chose to immediately close all offices. Something similar happened in Argentina with twitter as well I believe, and in that case they relocated most of the employees and their families via political asylum in Brazil at the time, if i'm not mistaken.
  - troupo 2y ago
    Just a year ago Musk was happily complying with censorship orders in Turkey [1] and [2] In Brasil's case he decided to abruptly pull out if the country. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena... [2] https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja...
    - polygamous_bat 2y ago
      The difference is: Brazil is being run by Lula Silva, who opposes Bolsonaro, while Turkey is run by Erdogan, and India is run by Modi. If you want to connect the thread, look into what kind of leaders Bolsonaro, Modi, and Erdogan are.
jrflowers 2y ago
Musk has been in a feud with this particular judge for a while now. This article covers the beginning of the fight https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-twitter-moraes-bef06c0dbbb8ed87495b1afbb0edf211 https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-twitter-moraes-bef0... And this one is an update on how both sides are acting kind of ridiculous https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/29/elons-standoff-with-brazil-reveals-hypocrisy-overreach-by-both-sides/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/29/elons-standoff-with-braz...
- perihelions 2y ago
  A judge that gets in a "feud" with a litigant, for any reason, is totally unfit to be a judge. "Judicial temperament" is how I've heard lawyers describe the ideal.
  - jrflowers 2y ago
    To be fair the “feud” wording that’s been used in US media is much more supported by Musk handling this situation by posting weird AI generated memes about the judge than the judge issuing a court order and then imposing penalties for refusing to comply with it.
  - SiempreViernes 2y ago
    You're reading that backwards, it is Elon who is feuding, which is to say Elon defies the rulings of the court and Elon slanders the judge on twitter. So meanwhile the judge is trying to enforce a law that Elon is actively, and spitefully, breaking.
prvc 2y ago
He appears to be really mad.
- SiempreViernes 2y ago
  Elon is yeah, he's posting AI images of the judge on twitter like it's a macho move.
  - silverliver 2y ago
    Mocking a siting emotional judge who is used to having his way _definitely_ qualifies as a macho move in my book. Whether it is a move that elon can afford, we still don't know.

Can anyone speak to the motivations of this judge? Does he have a valid/legal/moral point under Brazilian law with attempts to ban those accounts on X? Or is he just a toady for da Silva?

outside1234 2y ago

Yes - there is a law that you need to have legal representation in Brazil and Musk is just flouting the law. So shutdown it is for Musk

IncreasePosts 2y ago
That came after the judge's order to block the accounts. That is a secondary issue, not the primary one. On that topic, can you speak to the judge's orders to freeze the bank accounts of X's legal representative, even after she had resigned? What's the deal there?
- troupo 2y ago
  Musk is happy to comply with blocking anything and anyone when it suits him: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41404534
  - silverliver 2y ago
    Sure but that does not answer GP's question.
nomdep 2y ago
shutdown it is because he didn’t agree on collaborating with a tyrant. Would you do it?
- polygamous_bat 2y ago
  Elon loves collaborating with tyrants though [1-2], so that theory doesn't check out. [1] https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja... [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena...

cowsup 2y ago

The core facts are: Brazil demanded information regarding Brazilian users, and believed it was in their right to do so. X believed that the requests did not comply with Brazilian laws, and refused. Neither side yielded, so X closed up shop in Brazil, and, as a result, Brazil is blocking access to X.

Fabricio20 2y ago
There is actually more to this here, it was not just information about Brazilian users, the request was actually to shadowban (block without notifying the users) specific accounts. Some of those accounts happen to be political opposition (actual politicians too) to this judge and his party in general. I believe twitter or musk himself leaked all court documents when this request came in. Twitter/X closed shop because, after stating that they would not comply with these requests, the judge threatened to jail every Twitter/X employee in brazil in retaliation. So to avoid putting these employees/people in danger they chose to immediately close all offices. Something similar happened in Argentina with twitter as well I believe, and in that case they relocated most of the employees and their families via political asylum in Brazil at the time, if i'm not mistaken.
- troupo 2y ago
  Just a year ago Musk was happily complying with censorship orders in Turkey [1] and [2] In Brasil's case he decided to abruptly pull out if the country. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-enabling-turkish-censorship-on-twitter-calling-it-his-choice/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena... [2] https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja...
  - polygamous_bat 2y ago
    The difference is: Brazil is being run by Lula Silva, who opposes Bolsonaro, while Turkey is run by Erdogan, and India is run by Modi. If you want to connect the thread, look into what kind of leaders Bolsonaro, Modi, and Erdogan are.

jrflowers 2y ago

Musk has been in a feud with this particular judge for a while now. This article covers the beginning of the fight https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-twitter-moraes-bef06c0dbbb8ed87495b1afbb0edf211 https://apnews.com/article/brazil-musk-x-twitter-moraes-bef0... And this one is an update on how both sides are acting kind of ridiculous https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/29/elons-standoff-with-brazil-reveals-hypocrisy-overreach-by-both-sides/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/08/29/elons-standoff-with-braz...

perihelions 2y ago
A judge that gets in a "feud" with a litigant, for any reason, is totally unfit to be a judge. "Judicial temperament" is how I've heard lawyers describe the ideal.
- jrflowers 2y ago
  To be fair the “feud” wording that’s been used in US media is much more supported by Musk handling this situation by posting weird AI generated memes about the judge than the judge issuing a court order and then imposing penalties for refusing to comply with it.
- SiempreViernes 2y ago
  You're reading that backwards, it is Elon who is feuding, which is to say Elon defies the rulings of the court and Elon slanders the judge on twitter. So meanwhile the judge is trying to enforce a law that Elon is actively, and spitefully, breaking.

prvc 2y ago

He appears to be really mad.

SiempreViernes 2y ago
Elon is yeah, he's posting AI images of the judge on twitter like it's a macho move.
- silverliver 2y ago
  Mocking a siting emotional judge who is used to having his way _definitely_ qualifies as a macho move in my book. Whether it is a move that elon can afford, we still don't know.