6 ms·

Why would you even say something like that?

mustache_kimono 2y ago
>> I am a Drew Devault hater, so buckle https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job.htmlup https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job..... > Why would you even say something like that? Well -- never let it be said I wouldn't say it directly to you, and I hope after reading this you will at least understand why I feel the way I do. I said what I said above, because I find your writing deeply incurious, and what is probably worse, directed towards others who are similar incurious, in much the same way say Fox News or MSNBC is in my country. When I read your writing, I never have the sense you've ever thought critically about your opinions at all. There also seems to be only good things and bad things in your cosmology. I hope you know this isn't to denigrate you as an engineer, or you as a person. You may be a wonderful person, and you have certainly built artifacts which are useful to your users. You do also seem to be very principled and sincere in your beliefs. And it's certainly not to say I always live up to my/these aspirations! On the other hand, I think, when a software engineer expounds more broadly on software (which seems to be your only beat), they owe their readers a duty to be self-critical. For instance, as you, yourself, note: You're known for your Rust hot takes[0]. If you (or the comment readers) want me to get more particular see "Does Rust belong in the Linux kernel?"[1]. There you skip talking about memory safety to spend more than a few graphs on the "Trendiness" of Rust. An argument AFAIK that was never made by those seeking to integrate Rust into the Linux kernel. And this is where I usually get off the Devault train, because it is another shallow strawman based on vibes. Not once do you ask, as someone who is intellectually curious might: "Maybe Rust is trendy because it provides lots of interesting and useful features. Perhaps I/Drew should try this new language, then I'd have some basis for the many graphs I wrote about 'Trendiness'." Unfortunately for the reader, that never happens. Each blog post is one string of unschooled, untested assumptions tied inexorably to another string of assumptions, on and on, ad infinitum. I'll admit I've compared you to Tucker Carlson more than once because that is exactly what reading a Drew Devault blog post feels like, because yours is actually a deeply conservative breed of tech demagoguery, saying to your readers, again and again: "We already know what's right. Someone just needs to say it now and then..." Similarly, re: your latest article[0], yes, you do, in a footnote, express that you thought Ted T'so's behavior was bad. But your solutions have nothing to do with remedying the bad behavior. Your solution is -- I was right all along, it was never going to work out, this couple needs a divorce. At every turn I keep expecting you to say: "Was I right? I think so because..." but, as a regular reader, I should know better. We are on the Epistemic Closure Express. Drew's writing only knows one destination. TBC this beef doesn't just extend to your writing on Rust. Your writing on Linux packaging was what first bothered me[2]. Never once do you ask yourself questions like: Is there something wrong with the Linux model of 12 different package managers? What if a dev wants users to actually use his or her software, what should they do instead of wait? Do I really imagine distro maintainers are scouring the land looking for new software to land in their distros? Is there a software solution, perhaps a declarative language/system, which would make this easier? Your answer here is like your answer to bad behavior within Linux -- your problem isn't a problem. Because I can't tell my reader Linux has any problems? Because that would be too grey for my black/white world? [0]: https://drewdevault.com/2024/08/30/2024-08-30-Rust-in-Linux-revisited.html https://drewdevault.com/2024/08/30/2024-08-30-Rust-in-Linux-... [1]: https://drewdevault.com/2022/10/03/Does-Rust-belong-in-Linux.html https://drewdevault.com/2022/10/03/Does-Rust-belong-in-Linux... [2]: https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job....
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  slay
- jmercan 2y ago
  No matter the situation, no good can come from hatred. The RfL situation has already come from anger and bad, derailed arguments. Instead of having beef with a stranger online and comparing him to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) I think having a good faith reply to a good faith personal opinion will at worst do nothing and maybe result in something at best. Focus your hatred to the injustice of the world instead. edit: pronoun fix
  - mustache_kimono 2y ago
    > No matter the situation, no good can come from hatred. Appreciate this POV, probably ascribe to it. Suppose my "hate" for Drew is mostly re: his public persona. I "hate" Drew like I hate teams that play in the same division as my team, which is to say it that hate is lightly held. So, yes, "hate" is probably too strong a term. > Instead of having beef with a stranger online and comparing them to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) I would disagree with this notion. In many ways, Drew is a demagogue and a populist and a (tech) conservative. I am (tech) conservative in some/many ways too. But this disagreement isn't about our politics. > I think having a good faith reply to a good faith personal opinion will at worst do nothing and maybe result in something at best Agreed. But the problem I have with Drew don't extend to his good faith opinions. What bothers me is the incurious way in which he chooses to express himself, not what he believes. Which I suppose it would be fine if he had a smaller audience, but he seems to want a broader relevance. I really do believe that 100 more and then 100 more people who express themselves in a similar way would be bad for any community.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    >and comparing him to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) When I read your reaction to being compared to one of the most influential conservative political commentators, I had an inkling that you were missing the forest for the trees. Twas such an egregious transgression that you were compelled to virtue signal about how "very much not okay" that is, then attempt to gaslight people with scary terms like "alt-right" (nowhere in his Wikipedia is he listed as alt-right). This is a common pattern I see from a certain segment of the population with a high propensity to have pronouns in their profile. As an experiment I click on your profile, and, well...

>> I am a Drew Devault hater, so buckle https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job.htmlup https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job..... > Why would you even say something like that? Well -- never let it be said I wouldn't say it directly to you, and I hope after reading this you will at least understand why I feel the way I do. I said what I said above, because I find your writing deeply incurious, and what is probably worse, directed towards others who are similar incurious, in much the same way say Fox News or MSNBC is in my country. When I read your writing, I never have the sense you've ever thought critically about your opinions at all. There also seems to be only good things and bad things in your cosmology. I hope you know this isn't to denigrate you as an engineer, or you as a person. You may be a wonderful person, and you have certainly built artifacts which are useful to your users. You do also seem to be very principled and sincere in your beliefs. And it's certainly not to say I always live up to my/these aspirations! On the other hand, I think, when a software engineer expounds more broadly on software (which seems to be your only beat), they owe their readers a duty to be self-critical. For instance, as you, yourself, note: You're known for your Rust hot takes[0]. If you (or the comment readers) want me to get more particular see "Does Rust belong in the Linux kernel?"[1]. There you skip talking about memory safety to spend more than a few graphs on the "Trendiness" of Rust. An argument AFAIK that was never made by those seeking to integrate Rust into the Linux kernel. And this is where I usually get off the Devault train, because it is another shallow strawman based on vibes. Not once do you ask, as someone who is intellectually curious might: "Maybe Rust is trendy because it provides lots of interesting and useful features. Perhaps I/Drew should try this new language, then I'd have some basis for the many graphs I wrote about 'Trendiness'." Unfortunately for the reader, that never happens. Each blog post is one string of unschooled, untested assumptions tied inexorably to another string of assumptions, on and on, ad infinitum. I'll admit I've compared you to Tucker Carlson more than once because that is exactly what reading a Drew Devault blog post feels like, because yours is actually a deeply conservative breed of tech demagoguery, saying to your readers, again and again: "We already know what's right. Someone just needs to say it now and then..." Similarly, re: your latest article[0], yes, you do, in a footnote, express that you thought Ted T'so's behavior was bad. But your solutions have nothing to do with remedying the bad behavior. Your solution is -- I was right all along, it was never going to work out, this couple needs a divorce. At every turn I keep expecting you to say: "Was I right? I think so because..." but, as a regular reader, I should know better. We are on the Epistemic Closure Express. Drew's writing only knows one destination. TBC this beef doesn't just extend to your writing on Rust. Your writing on Linux packaging was what first bothered me[2]. Never once do you ask yourself questions like: Is there something wrong with the Linux model of 12 different package managers? What if a dev wants users to actually use his or her software, what should they do instead of wait? Do I really imagine distro maintainers are scouring the land looking for new software to land in their distros? Is there a software solution, perhaps a declarative language/system, which would make this easier? Your answer here is like your answer to bad behavior within Linux -- your problem isn't a problem. Because I can't tell my reader Linux has any problems? Because that would be too grey for my black/white world? [0]: https://drewdevault.com/2024/08/30/2024-08-30-Rust-in-Linux-revisited.html https://drewdevault.com/2024/08/30/2024-08-30-Rust-in-Linux-... [1]: https://drewdevault.com/2022/10/03/Does-Rust-belong-in-Linux.html https://drewdevault.com/2022/10/03/Does-Rust-belong-in-Linux... [2]: https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/09/27/Let-distros-do-their-job....

iknowstuff 2y ago
slay
jmercan 2y ago
No matter the situation, no good can come from hatred. The RfL situation has already come from anger and bad, derailed arguments. Instead of having beef with a stranger online and comparing him to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) I think having a good faith reply to a good faith personal opinion will at worst do nothing and maybe result in something at best. Focus your hatred to the injustice of the world instead. edit: pronoun fix
- mustache_kimono 2y ago
  > No matter the situation, no good can come from hatred. Appreciate this POV, probably ascribe to it. Suppose my "hate" for Drew is mostly re: his public persona. I "hate" Drew like I hate teams that play in the same division as my team, which is to say it that hate is lightly held. So, yes, "hate" is probably too strong a term. > Instead of having beef with a stranger online and comparing them to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) I would disagree with this notion. In many ways, Drew is a demagogue and a populist and a (tech) conservative. I am (tech) conservative in some/many ways too. But this disagreement isn't about our politics. > I think having a good faith reply to a good faith personal opinion will at worst do nothing and maybe result in something at best Agreed. But the problem I have with Drew don't extend to his good faith opinions. What bothers me is the incurious way in which he chooses to express himself, not what he believes. Which I suppose it would be fine if he had a smaller audience, but he seems to want a broader relevance. I really do believe that 100 more and then 100 more people who express themselves in a similar way would be bad for any community.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- anonfordays 2y ago
  >and comparing him to an alt-right figure (which is very much not okay) When I read your reaction to being compared to one of the most influential conservative political commentators, I had an inkling that you were missing the forest for the trees. Twas such an egregious transgression that you were compelled to virtue signal about how "very much not okay" that is, then attempt to gaslight people with scary terms like "alt-right" (nowhere in his Wikipedia is he listed as alt-right). This is a common pattern I see from a certain segment of the population with a high propensity to have pronouns in their profile. As an experiment I click on your profile, and, well...