5 ms·

EV sales hit speed bump as drivers unplug from the electric dream

10 points by LinuxBender 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
taylodl 2y ago
> "The main perceived barriers remain range, access to charging points, and cost to purchase" I'm no longer buying range as a primary driver keeping people away from BEVs. The way I see it, the problem you have now is people not having a garage where they can charge their cars. Without that, BEVs lose their biggest selling point: convenience. Come home, park the car in the garage, plug it in, and forget it about it. Smart charging determines when to charge, so I pay the least in power, and ensures I don't overcharge. All I have to do is plug it in and forget it. Convenient. If you don't have a garage? It's a nightmare! There have been some brave souls who've done it, but even many of them get tired of it after a couple of years. Long story short - public charging is a shit show and highly dependent on your current location. For some people, it's great. For many people, it's not. While plug it in and forget it works for a lot of households, it also doesn't work for a lot of households. I'm not surprised at all that BEV sales growth is starting to decline.
- floxy 2y ago
  Anyone have stats on what percentage of households living in a house/condo with a garage also own an EV? I see from: https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/how-many-electric-cars-in-us.html https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/how-many-elect... ...that there are about 3.5 million EVs that have ever been purchased (since 2015), and ~700,000 PHEVs, for a total of 4.2 million. Looks like there are around 129 million households [0], and 70% of Americans live in a single-family home [1]. So it would seem that ~5% who might have a garage, might also own an EV (give or take). [0]https://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-households-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-househo... [1] https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-americans-prefer-single-family-homeownership_o https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-...
  - taylodl 2y ago
    "Single-family home" and "home having a garage" are two different things. Suburban homes built since the 80s often have a garage, but older suburban homes and homes that are in-town often do not.
    - floxy 2y ago
      And I know 2 people living in condos with garages, where they could charge an EV. And you can charge an EV from your driveway, even without a garage. What would be your estimate of the percentage of households who could have an EV (because of ease of overnight charging at home), that actually do have an EV? 7%? 10%? https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ev+charger+driveway&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ev+charger+driveway&iax=ima...
      - taylodl 2y ago
        As I wrote my comment, I was thinking 10%. It's funny you bring up homes having driveways but no garages, that was a "thing" for a while, even in suburban homes in the 60s and 70s. The homes in town often didn't even have a driveway. A couple of days ago I saw an article saying in China extended-range PHEVs are becoming all the rage. It's a full electric drivetrain, the gas engine is only used for charging the battery. That's an idea that could really catch on.
        floxy 2y ago
        See also the 2025 Ramcharger https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger
        taylodl 2y ago
        Wow! That's exactly the kind of capability I saw! All-electric drivetrain, engine is only necessary for charging the battery. I'm surprised the engine is as large as it is - but maybe it was spec'd to keep everything running even when towing/loading at max capacity? In a passenger vehicle you'd think they'd be able to get away with a small motorcycle engine.
- kkfx 2y ago
  The problem is simply this https://asia.nikkei.com/content/1f9ed40b4b44745e1a39fafaf94b8b74 https://asia.nikkei.com/content/1f9ed40b4b44745e1a39fafaf94b... here in EU the same car cost a bit less than 40.000€. The world is globalized enough people know the prices, you can't sell something so expensive in some countries while in some other it's so cheap. The point is that we still have a tech advantage, but far far far shorter than the past and with current financial ruling of anything, including the "you'll own nothing" people simply do their best to save money sticking with what they already have. Surely, without home charging you can't make a life with an EV but that's even marginal than the above. Remote working despite every pushback and absurd hybrid is here to stay, large cities economy is doomed so people with a garage will be people who can own a car, the others will be too impoverished to own one. Actual ruling class have to understand a thing: people are mostly not so smart, but there is a limit.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    > people simply do their best to save money sticking with what they already have To your point, I own 3 vehicles, and the newest one is 17 years old. One of them is from the last millennium! It has windows you have to manually crank and it doesn't even have direct fuel injection - it's the old-fashioned throttle-body fuel injection! One of my problems with today's EVs isn't with the EV technology itself, it's all the tech they're putting on today's cars. Cameras everywhere. Lane assist. You name it, today's cars have it and it's making their useful lifetime way less than it should be given the simplicity of their drivetrain. More money, less reliability. No thanks! Make me the equivalent of an 00s Honda Civic but is an EV? That's what I'm looking for! I don't need, nor want, all the rest of this crap.
    - floxy 2y ago
      >Make me the equivalent of an 00s Honda Civic but is an EV? Base model Nissan Leaf? https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html ...still some cameras, but no lane centering, no adaptive cruise control, etc.
    - kkfx 2y ago
- klipklop 2y ago
  The extreme cost of collision repair and ever ballooning insurance cost is what keeps me away. Also each year the recharge savings over gas disappears has the local power companies jack up rates.
marssaxman 2y ago
Stop blocking the import of inexpensive Chinese electric vehicles and I bet you'll see sales pick back up again.
thebruce87m 2y ago
> Despite gains in Belgium (+44.2%), the Netherlands (+8.9%), and France (+1%), Germany’s decline (-36.8%) could not be offset. So is it just Germany bringing the numbers down? The article seems to want to suggest this is a bigger problem (usual EV FUD) but focussing on why Germany has such a big decline would make for a more interesting article.

10 points by LinuxBender 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

> "The main perceived barriers remain range, access to charging points, and cost to purchase" I'm no longer buying range as a primary driver keeping people away from BEVs. The way I see it, the problem you have now is people not having a garage where they can charge their cars. Without that, BEVs lose their biggest selling point: convenience. Come home, park the car in the garage, plug it in, and forget it about it. Smart charging determines when to charge, so I pay the least in power, and ensures I don't overcharge. All I have to do is plug it in and forget it. Convenient. If you don't have a garage? It's a nightmare! There have been some brave souls who've done it, but even many of them get tired of it after a couple of years. Long story short - public charging is a shit show and highly dependent on your current location. For some people, it's great. For many people, it's not. While plug it in and forget it works for a lot of households, it also doesn't work for a lot of households. I'm not surprised at all that BEV sales growth is starting to decline.

floxy 2y ago
Anyone have stats on what percentage of households living in a house/condo with a garage also own an EV? I see from: https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/how-many-electric-cars-in-us.html https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/how-many-elect... ...that there are about 3.5 million EVs that have ever been purchased (since 2015), and ~700,000 PHEVs, for a total of 4.2 million. Looks like there are around 129 million households [0], and 70% of Americans live in a single-family home [1]. So it would seem that ~5% who might have a garage, might also own an EV (give or take). [0]https://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-households-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-househo... [1] https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-americans-prefer-single-family-homeownership_o https://www.builderonline.com/money/economics/80-percent-of-...
- taylodl 2y ago
  "Single-family home" and "home having a garage" are two different things. Suburban homes built since the 80s often have a garage, but older suburban homes and homes that are in-town often do not.
  - floxy 2y ago
    And I know 2 people living in condos with garages, where they could charge an EV. And you can charge an EV from your driveway, even without a garage. What would be your estimate of the percentage of households who could have an EV (because of ease of overnight charging at home), that actually do have an EV? 7%? 10%? https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ev+charger+driveway&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=ev+charger+driveway&iax=ima...
    - taylodl 2y ago
      As I wrote my comment, I was thinking 10%. It's funny you bring up homes having driveways but no garages, that was a "thing" for a while, even in suburban homes in the 60s and 70s. The homes in town often didn't even have a driveway. A couple of days ago I saw an article saying in China extended-range PHEVs are becoming all the rage. It's a full electric drivetrain, the gas engine is only used for charging the battery. That's an idea that could really catch on.
      - floxy 2y ago
        See also the 2025 Ramcharger https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger
        taylodl 2y ago
        Wow! That's exactly the kind of capability I saw! All-electric drivetrain, engine is only necessary for charging the battery. I'm surprised the engine is as large as it is - but maybe it was spec'd to keep everything running even when towing/loading at max capacity? In a passenger vehicle you'd think they'd be able to get away with a small motorcycle engine.
kkfx 2y ago
The problem is simply this https://asia.nikkei.com/content/1f9ed40b4b44745e1a39fafaf94b8b74 https://asia.nikkei.com/content/1f9ed40b4b44745e1a39fafaf94b... here in EU the same car cost a bit less than 40.000€. The world is globalized enough people know the prices, you can't sell something so expensive in some countries while in some other it's so cheap. The point is that we still have a tech advantage, but far far far shorter than the past and with current financial ruling of anything, including the "you'll own nothing" people simply do their best to save money sticking with what they already have. Surely, without home charging you can't make a life with an EV but that's even marginal than the above. Remote working despite every pushback and absurd hybrid is here to stay, large cities economy is doomed so people with a garage will be people who can own a car, the others will be too impoverished to own one. Actual ruling class have to understand a thing: people are mostly not so smart, but there is a limit.
- taylodl 2y ago
  > people simply do their best to save money sticking with what they already have To your point, I own 3 vehicles, and the newest one is 17 years old. One of them is from the last millennium! It has windows you have to manually crank and it doesn't even have direct fuel injection - it's the old-fashioned throttle-body fuel injection! One of my problems with today's EVs isn't with the EV technology itself, it's all the tech they're putting on today's cars. Cameras everywhere. Lane assist. You name it, today's cars have it and it's making their useful lifetime way less than it should be given the simplicity of their drivetrain. More money, less reliability. No thanks! Make me the equivalent of an 00s Honda Civic but is an EV? That's what I'm looking for! I don't need, nor want, all the rest of this crap.
  - floxy 2y ago
    >Make me the equivalent of an 00s Honda Civic but is an EV? Base model Nissan Leaf? https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html ...still some cameras, but no lane centering, no adaptive cruise control, etc.
  - kkfx 2y ago
klipklop 2y ago
The extreme cost of collision repair and ever ballooning insurance cost is what keeps me away. Also each year the recharge savings over gas disappears has the local power companies jack up rates.

marssaxman 2y ago

Stop blocking the import of inexpensive Chinese electric vehicles and I bet you'll see sales pick back up again.

thebruce87m 2y ago

> Despite gains in Belgium (+44.2%), the Netherlands (+8.9%), and France (+1%), Germany’s decline (-36.8%) could not be offset. So is it just Germany bringing the numbers down? The article seems to want to suggest this is a bigger problem (usual EV FUD) but focussing on why Germany has such a big decline would make for a more interesting article.