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> Your link specifically says Amazon didn’t steal the code, some German company did. Yeah it's not that Amazon stole the code, it's that they were distributing

> Your link specifically says Amazon didn’t steal the code, some German company did. Yeah it's not that Amazon stole the code, it's that they were distributing stolen code. It's not as bad but it's still problematic unless Amazon immediately pulled said code when they were notified. > My peeve is with the companies like elastic that claim they are for open source but they try to prevent the open source from being used as such. It’s a scam to attract developers who care about open source. I think this was less about preventing open source from being used and more about picking the wrong license for their project. The way I see it they took the long way around because they were afraid of the AGPL. They dual licensed under the SSPL (which is the AGPL with one change that makes it problematic) and the Elastic License (which they originally also provided code under a previous version of). Then they are now finally getting around to moving from the SSPL to the AGPL (while technically still offering the SSPL). Had they gone straight to the AGPL none of this would have been even worth discussing but a lot of people are afraid of that license in the same way people used to be scared of the GPL. > If I made code I wanted to be open source, I’d understand that means everyone can use it, like a public road or a public park. That includes big corps. Sure however if you chose an open source license, you probably don't want companies selling access to your software with a few extra closed source bits bolted on without contributing anything back. It's not legally wrong but it's a dick move and against the spirit of FOSS. So even then Amazon hadn't broke any laws but it'd make sense for a FOSS oriented company to pivot to a license they think would force upstream contribution. Elastic just fucked up and chose a bad license (SSPL) because they feared the AGPL. This is just them getting over that fear and picking the license they should have picked from day 1. > At least Amazon actually supports the Apache licensed OpenSearch product! They do now. When Elastic was Apache licensed they did not. That was the problem. It was only when they re-licensed Elastic that Amazon open sourced their fork. Had they not, OpenSearch would still be the closed source AWS ElasticSearch.

ok_dad 2y ago
> it's a dick move and against the spirit of FOSS I disagree with this. Most people use FOSS and do not give anything back, individuals included. The spirit of FOSS is creating things that others will use without compensation. If I release anything open source, it's because I'm donating it as a whole to humanity, including big corps and individuals. I understand that, because I've thought long and hard about what it means to release something with, say, an MIT license. It means you lose having full control of your creation. If I wanted to limit who can use my software, I'll sell it or license it accordingly. Complaining later that your FOSS software was "stolen" or "exploited" or whatever is just sour grapes.
- CuriousCosmic 2y ago
  I think it's a difference of scale. If rando small business or rando dude is just using FOSS software without giving back, whatever people have priorities. If megacorp is re-boxing it in a closed source manner and making mass profits off of it without dedicating at least some level of engineering hours or money to the project, that's a dick move. Being unhappy with that situation is totally fine and it's understandable to change the licensing to a more copyleft license to reflect your intents. That's what elastic did. They essentially went Apache-2.0 -> ... -> AGPLv3 but it took a while for them to figure it out. And my complaint isn't that people make money off FOSS software or don't give back enough. It's that they make money off FOSS software and don't give back essentially at all while depriving their users of the same rights/licensing terms that the upstream gave them.
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    In any case, Amazon did give back to Elastic via code commits before the fork, so they didn't just steal the code, they also made it better. I can't believe I am defending Amazon, but this is a hill that I will die on: FOSS means free, as in beer.

ok_dad 2y ago

> it's a dick move and against the spirit of FOSS I disagree with this. Most people use FOSS and do not give anything back, individuals included. The spirit of FOSS is creating things that others will use without compensation. If I release anything open source, it's because I'm donating it as a whole to humanity, including big corps and individuals. I understand that, because I've thought long and hard about what it means to release something with, say, an MIT license. It means you lose having full control of your creation. If I wanted to limit who can use my software, I'll sell it or license it accordingly. Complaining later that your FOSS software was "stolen" or "exploited" or whatever is just sour grapes.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago
I think it's a difference of scale. If rando small business or rando dude is just using FOSS software without giving back, whatever people have priorities. If megacorp is re-boxing it in a closed source manner and making mass profits off of it without dedicating at least some level of engineering hours or money to the project, that's a dick move. Being unhappy with that situation is totally fine and it's understandable to change the licensing to a more copyleft license to reflect your intents. That's what elastic did. They essentially went Apache-2.0 -> ... -> AGPLv3 but it took a while for them to figure it out. And my complaint isn't that people make money off FOSS software or don't give back enough. It's that they make money off FOSS software and don't give back essentially at all while depriving their users of the same rights/licensing terms that the upstream gave them.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  In any case, Amazon did give back to Elastic via code commits before the fork, so they didn't just steal the code, they also made it better. I can't believe I am defending Amazon, but this is a hill that I will die on: FOSS means free, as in beer.