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> Social decay is a real phenomenon Calling this decay is an incredibly short sighted view of the actual changes that are happening. Kids used to grow up in to

> Social decay is a real phenomenon Calling this decay is an incredibly short sighted view of the actual changes that are happening. Kids used to grow up in toxic households with parents fighting and hating each other. Just look at old TV shows like Married with Children and The Honeymooners. Now they grow up with an absent parent. I'm the latter and I'm really happy my parents chose divorce over keeping up appearances and giving me a shitty life. Domestic abuse in general has also been on a pretty steady decline because of the decrease in societal pressure to stay married.

mensetmanusman 2y ago
That’s great, but data is also real: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10666570/#:~:text=Father%20absence%20during%20early%20childhood,of%20depression%20in%20early%20adulthood.&text=Early%20childhood%20father%20absence%20is,across%20adolescence%20and%20early%20adulthood.&text=Effects%20are%20strongest%20for%20females%20with%20absent%20fathers%20in%20early%20childhood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10666570/#:~:te.... I.e. on average your life would have been even better if your parents were awesome.
- wickedsight 2y ago
  Well... Duh. I would've loved to have two parents who loved each other and took me on fun family trips! But that wasn't an option, since they had an awful relationship. So the options were either divorce or doubling down on a shitty relationship. They chose divorce and I'm happy for it. Also, your study doesn't seem to have any comparison to the impact of abusive relationships vs. father absence, which is what I was talking about. If you can find anything about that, I'd love to see it.
- exe34 2y ago
  > I.e. on average your life would have been even better if your parents were awesome. That's pretty profound! You should write an article!
a-french-anon 2y ago
You're not implying that single parents have simply replaced toxic households, are you? The issues are most probably overlapping in numbers.
- wickedsight 2y ago
  No, they definitely haven't replaced them. But divorce being more common has certainly opened up doors for plenty of women to escape abusive relationships. That doesn't mean that they can all find that open door or all have an open door. There are still plenty of people in religions where divorced is frowned upon (to put it lightly) and there are also plenty of people who are mentally unable to pull out of a toxic relationship. But the reduction in societal pressure that 'marriage is forever' definitely has an impact.
  - a-french-anon 2y ago
    Divorce laws indeed had some good outcomes like you wrote, but it also allowed people to make carefree choices when choosing a mate - something that should be a well thought out, very long-term deal - and as we all know, we're now in the realm of perverse incentives on the subject. And don't get me started on the vicious interactions between the "soft deprecation" of fault divorce, the abolition of adultery laws and economic aids for single parents. Clearly not the best mixture of choices.
    - wickedsight 2y ago
      > it also allowed people to make carefree choices when choosing a mate Lets flip that coin... Religion/tradition forces people to get married before they actually knew each other well. Then they move in together, have kids and must stay together forever. I feel like 'we need to get married to live together' is way more in the realm of perverse incentives. In the 70's, people on average married around age 22. Right now that's closer to age 29. Which one seems more carefree to you? To me it's the getting married at 22 without having lived together.
      - 2y ago

mensetmanusman 2y ago

That’s great, but data is also real: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10666570/#:~:text=Father%20absence%20during%20early%20childhood,of%20depression%20in%20early%20adulthood.&text=Early%20childhood%20father%20absence%20is,across%20adolescence%20and%20early%20adulthood.&text=Effects%20are%20strongest%20for%20females%20with%20absent%20fathers%20in%20early%20childhood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10666570/#:~:te.... I.e. on average your life would have been even better if your parents were awesome.

wickedsight 2y ago
Well... Duh. I would've loved to have two parents who loved each other and took me on fun family trips! But that wasn't an option, since they had an awful relationship. So the options were either divorce or doubling down on a shitty relationship. They chose divorce and I'm happy for it. Also, your study doesn't seem to have any comparison to the impact of abusive relationships vs. father absence, which is what I was talking about. If you can find anything about that, I'd love to see it.
exe34 2y ago
> I.e. on average your life would have been even better if your parents were awesome. That's pretty profound! You should write an article!

a-french-anon 2y ago

You're not implying that single parents have simply replaced toxic households, are you? The issues are most probably overlapping in numbers.

wickedsight 2y ago
No, they definitely haven't replaced them. But divorce being more common has certainly opened up doors for plenty of women to escape abusive relationships. That doesn't mean that they can all find that open door or all have an open door. There are still plenty of people in religions where divorced is frowned upon (to put it lightly) and there are also plenty of people who are mentally unable to pull out of a toxic relationship. But the reduction in societal pressure that 'marriage is forever' definitely has an impact.
- a-french-anon 2y ago
  Divorce laws indeed had some good outcomes like you wrote, but it also allowed people to make carefree choices when choosing a mate - something that should be a well thought out, very long-term deal - and as we all know, we're now in the realm of perverse incentives on the subject. And don't get me started on the vicious interactions between the "soft deprecation" of fault divorce, the abolition of adultery laws and economic aids for single parents. Clearly not the best mixture of choices.
  - wickedsight 2y ago
    > it also allowed people to make carefree choices when choosing a mate Lets flip that coin... Religion/tradition forces people to get married before they actually knew each other well. Then they move in together, have kids and must stay together forever. I feel like 'we need to get married to live together' is way more in the realm of perverse incentives. In the 70's, people on average married around age 22. Right now that's closer to age 29. Which one seems more carefree to you? To me it's the getting married at 22 without having lived together.
    - 2y ago