4 ms·

As others have mentioned, a pie is consumable, and thus a good one has value even if it isn't original. But a slight change to the original scenario makes aski

• drewcoo 2y ago
  > "Wait, how is this different from every other peach pie recipe that's ever been written? It seems really similar to another recipe I have." > That's not an unreasonable answer. Pies are not supposed to be unique. Recipes are freely traded. That "friend" is an a-hole.
  • jihiggins 2y ago
    imo, only if it's asked in bad faith. maybe that's just worded poorly, but e.g. "oh, thanks! what'd you do differently with this recipe?" or w/e
    • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      If I took the time to develop, write down and share a recipe, I'd welcome that question. Even if it's not original, there is variation among peach pies and I clearly have an opinion on it.
  • jajko 2y ago
    Indeed if that's the response, you either have an acquaintance with 0 emotional intelligence that is by default like an elephant in porcelain shop in relationships, probably move on since its a lifelong effort to even just sustain such friendship. Or its an envious a-hole since such message is clearly denigrating, still lacks basic emotional intelligence, and then just run and don't look back. If I ever saw 2 women commenting each other's efforts like that, there would be a fight soon or at least lifelong hate would have firmly started. Normal response is for example a mix of appreciation of effort, curiosity about uniqueness and methodology, other recipes, etc. One can chip in other attempts and compare, that's how mankind lived till now and its considered normal human interaction (TM). Bad relationships are much worse than no relationships, be it friends or romantic type. Many folks are very afraid of loneliness, but there is strength in it with right mindset for everybody (us introverts thrive in loneliness just sparingly sprinkled with quality human interactions, but others consider it daunting to the point of preferring serious harm)
    • zer00eyz 2y ago
      The people closest to you are the ones who are supposed to be able to tell you that "you're wrong" in the least hurtful way. "Support everything I do blindly" is NOT what friends do its what sycophants do. Your friend is supposed to lift you up when your right, and tell you "you are being a moron" when your wrong.
      • teddyh 2y ago
        Thinking that friends must always be supportive and positive is exactly Geek Social Fallacy #2: <https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/ https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/>
      • ericjmorey 2y ago
        This is black and white thinking and the reality is grey.
  • mistercow 2y ago
    Also the analogy just really breaks at the seam we’re examining because a reasonable and obvious answer would be “I like the pies you get from this one”, which isn’t a great answer if you’re talking about software. And recipes are a lot simpler than software, so your friend could just look at the two recipes and quickly see how they’re different.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  • jp57 2y ago
    But the OP isn't talking about pies, really. It seems like the main difference of opinion in this thread comes down to one's default assumptions about whether you expect your friends to give you honest feedback or just smile to save your feelings. Maybe this is a generational or cultural difference, but I think if you can't get honest feedback from your friends you'll never get it at all.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
• hnlmorg 2y ago
  > When I was in a band, one of the most valuable things my songwriting friends and I did for each other was tell each other when our work sounded like something that was already out there. I'm a big advocate for originality, but its worth noting that most bands will have covered at least one song. > If you make a new piece of software and offer it to a friend to use, it's not unreasonable for them to ask how it's different from something that's out there already. If you're comparing baking to software then I'd argue that the software equivalent of a recipe is going to be frameworks and the programming language. And people do very much flock towards common frameworks that are known to work well. Just like how a lot of people prefer to use recipes that are known to work rather than chancing on something unknown.
  • jp57 2y ago
    Sure, you do covers, and everyone knows the difference between a cover and an original. Even so, bands that do original music often try to do the cover in their own style, so the question of "how is this different from the original" is still relevant.
    • hnlmorg 2y ago
      > Sure, you do covers, and everyone knows the difference between a cover and an original. Everyone? You'd be amazed at the number of songs people think are the originals but are actually covers. I bet there's some songs even you didn't realise were covers > Even so, bands that do original music often try to do the cover in their own style "often" is a pretty telling term here because it's also often when the cover is extremely faithful to the original. > so the question of "how is this different from the original" is still relevant. People ask that question about all sorts of things. But what the point originally being inferred was, is that if the secondary item isn't distinct enough from the original then the secondary item doesn't have much value. And I'm making a point that doesn't apply to music (and nor do I believe it applies to baking either). The entire premise of some pastimes, such as karaoke, is centred around the concept of replication rather than originality. Personally, I prefer originality over replication too. but it would be stupid for me to ignore the fact that a significant number of the worlds population just want to enjoy something without caring about how original it is.
• atoav 2y ago
  I have thought about this in the context of making music as well. For me the line of thinking goes somewhat like this: 1. I value music that is a honest expression of a feeling, some sort of musical idea or whatever 2. Personally I would not usually feel satisfied with my own musical expression if I copied a thing that works for someone else This means that I also find it unlikely that a popstars scripted appearance just happened to authentically produce expressions that just coincidentally happened to reproduce sucessful music (especially given the fact that they don't write the songs themselves usually). Additionally I apply the standards I apply to myself to others. This is something e.g. programmers are probably deeply familiar with. Now this is a bit like in the Matrix films where Cypher betrays our heros, because he would rather enjoy his steak in the simulation than face the desert of the real. Only I believe the choice isn't really there. Either you can ignore the simulation or you're allergic to it. I could pretend I like whatever music people listen to usually, but it both bores me and makes me actively hate myself for listening to it. Now music that is good is something else. And it doesn't even need to be a new idea or particularily complex to play. There just needs to be something within the musical expression that itself goes elsewhere.
• 015a 2y ago
  I think the better metaphor is: Imagine you make a chair over the weekend. You already have many chairs. Chairs are readily and cheaply available. Your design is likely derivative of many other chairs. Being told any of these things by a friend you show the chair to is entirely pointless and maybe even mean. The only angle that has some level of social acceptability is an angle like "check out this chair that's like what you wanted to build, maybe you could learn something from it", but even that is a 50/50 on whether its taken positively or taken as "oh, you don't think I don't know how to build a chair, wtf bro". Pie recipes are different. Music is different (VERY different) (incomparable).
  • jp57 2y ago
    I'd say software is more like a pie recipe or a song than like a pie or a chair.
    • hnlmorg 2y ago
      You're comparing completely different products by abstract concepts that are entirely contextual. So the GP is going to be just as "correct" as you. That's the problem with analogies, the more abstract they are, the more people disagree because they perceive them from a different contextual view point. edited to make the point clearer
    • Spivak 2y ago
      And yet we're paid to write derivative songs all day which is why I don't think the analogy fits. If I write yet another rails app that does nothing to push the industry forward and isn't novel (to a computer scientist) it nonetheless provides business value. And since it isn't consumed on use it's clear that we're talking about a bespoke durable good — a chair, a shelf, a thing that is useful without it being novel. Software might be made of words but that doesn't make it a recipe or a song.
      • aidenn0 2y ago
        But in this case, the bespoke rails app does do something that other ones do not, in the sense of it works with a specific database with specific operations. To stretch the analogy, "this chair fits people who are 180.3cm tall better than any previous chair"
• JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > pie is consumable More precisely, it's a rival good [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivalry_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivalry_(economics)
  • addaon 2y ago
    More precisely, you mean more generally, not more precisely. Saying pie is a consumable and a rival good are equally accurate, but the former is more precise, as the former is a subset of the latter.
    • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > you mean more generally, not more precisely No, I meant what I wrote. Another comment mentioned a chair [1]. A comfortable chair is not consumable, but it is rival. Rivalry is what makes pies and code economically distinct, not consumability. Put another way, if you have access to infinite identical pies, they behave like code. They're still consumable. But not rival. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401785
• sqeaky 2y ago
  Brilliant inversion. Because software can be used without consuming it we presume there is some utility in new software distinct from prior software otherwise it would come with information explaining it was purely a "creative act" as the article puts it. I wouldn't create a new office suite for the joy of creation then offer it along side ms word or google docs. I might make one then put it in a portfolio as a showcase of skill or do it to learn some skill. But having two word processors is useless in a way that having 2 of a consumable good is not.
  • dartos 2y ago
    That’s a big reason why software companies can be so profitable. Almost no material cost.
• strangattractor 2y ago
  When a User adopts a new piece of software an investment of time and effort is necessary (not so for eating a pie). If a particular piece of software doesn't do anything to improve the User's current process it is a wasted investment. If the User currently doesn't use a similar piece of software because they found what is available lacking then why invest if the new software doesn't do anything different. Asking how a product is different is always relevant when allocation of your own resources is involved.
  • chipsrafferty 2y ago
    Didn't know eating pie was 0 time. Personally, it takes me less time to decide whether some new software is crap and not worth my time than it does to eat a pie.
    • strangattractor 2y ago
      Zero investment of my time or resources - I already know how to eat pi - nothing to learn or experiment. If it is the same pie I had before and did not like I don't even bother to try it. Of course if it is different than pie I had before I might try it but apparently I should not even ask.
• ok_dad 2y ago
  When I see two things that appear the same, but were developed or created by two different people and/or methods, I inspect each closely to see where the differences lie. Usually, there are some good lessons to learn from each new pie I consume!
• AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  Yes, software is the recipe, not the pie