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This is well argued. I think the part that you missed the part that the majority of people calling or voting (or "wishing"?) for a military takeover is technic

This is well argued. I think the part that you missed the part that the majority of people calling or voting (or "wishing"?) for a military takeover is technically still a democracy. It is not necessary to call for a free speech argument, when you have the power of the mob behind you. Incidentally, why democracies are just... dangerous mob rule. As you said, democracies do vote in socialists, or communists, which are far worse. Banning 'wrongthink' while at the same time allowing murderous ideologies like socialism to roam free, so that ideas have killed hundreds of millions of people in history, are actually scot-free, does seem paradoxical, at the very least.

matheusmoreira 2y ago
> As you said, democracies do vote in socialists, or communists, which are far worse. Hell, they elect them. An actual socialist president was elected in 2022 and is in power right now. And he appointed another communist to act as a judge in the supreme court. The brazilian government is absolutely filled with these people. Our economics minister wrote a dissertation on the soviet union's economics shortly before it collapsed. An economics minister who doesn't believe in private property. I wish I was making this stuff up. Most brazilians apparently think that communism died with the soviet union and that any talk of socialism in Brazil is just baseless conspiracy theory. Despite the fact we have lots of political parties which feature the words "socialist" and "communist" in their literal names. I fear for the future of this country. Compared to this, military rule would not be so bad. At least there's a chance for Brazil to prosper that way.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  I mean, you complain about "communists" and "socialists" (as if Lula's government was anything like that. I mean, his vice president is Geraldo Alckmin. Not really an example of socialist). But that is all beyond the point. You don't mind the coup attempt in January 8th because you are sympathetic to the idea of a military dictatorship in Brazil. The only possible reading is that you are an authoritarian, as long as the ones you are aligned with politically are in power. You don't value democracy. This conversation is moot. The funny thing is that you think that a military dictatorship would not be so bad and thst Brazil might prosper, ignoring how hilariously incompetent the military in Brazil is.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    There was no coup attempt. And you're right that even if there had been one I would not have minded. The reason for that is in my world view I am already living in a dictatorship of the judiciary. So it's not that I don't value democracy, it's that Brazil is not really a democracy to begin with. If I have to choose between a dictatorship of the military and a dictatorship of a communist judiciary, I'd rather live under the military one. An actual democracy would be nice but it doesn't seem to be one of the available choices. I'm not sure that I'm politically aligned with the military either. It's not like its a right wing haven. Lots of communists in there too and it got even worse after Lula reached power. I chose my words very carefully specifically because I wanted to avoid even the implication that I think the military is competent. I refer to the brazilian military as the "armed pensionists", they do literally nothing other than suck up our taxpayer money. I wish it was different. I still think they are preferrable to communists in power but that's a very low bar to begin with. Even so, it would be unwise to underestimate what a military state is capable of. The brazilian dictatorship was responsible for major industrialization and the imports replacement policy. This contributed to the creation of the Lua programming language, for example. I sure as hell want Brazil go even further than that, and these communists aren't getting the job done.
    - yimmothathird 2y ago
      > If I have to choose between a dictatorship of the military and a dictatorship of a communist judiciary, I'd rather live under the military one. Have you tried asking the CIA?
      - matheusmoreira 2y ago
        The CIA and NSA are already involved. The CIA in particular essentially gave the brazilian right the evidence that got our current president arrested for corruption years ago. Biden's CIA guy literally told our former president to stop questioning the elections in a public statement, even some american journalists noticed. The left constantly accused Bolsonaro of being a CIA puppet and I don't even doubt those claims. I just wonder what happened behind the curtains that soured the CIA's opinion of him.

matheusmoreira 2y ago

> As you said, democracies do vote in socialists, or communists, which are far worse. Hell, they elect them. An actual socialist president was elected in 2022 and is in power right now. And he appointed another communist to act as a judge in the supreme court. The brazilian government is absolutely filled with these people. Our economics minister wrote a dissertation on the soviet union's economics shortly before it collapsed. An economics minister who doesn't believe in private property. I wish I was making this stuff up. Most brazilians apparently think that communism died with the soviet union and that any talk of socialism in Brazil is just baseless conspiracy theory. Despite the fact we have lots of political parties which feature the words "socialist" and "communist" in their literal names. I fear for the future of this country. Compared to this, military rule would not be so bad. At least there's a chance for Brazil to prosper that way.

surgical_fire 2y ago
I mean, you complain about "communists" and "socialists" (as if Lula's government was anything like that. I mean, his vice president is Geraldo Alckmin. Not really an example of socialist). But that is all beyond the point. You don't mind the coup attempt in January 8th because you are sympathetic to the idea of a military dictatorship in Brazil. The only possible reading is that you are an authoritarian, as long as the ones you are aligned with politically are in power. You don't value democracy. This conversation is moot. The funny thing is that you think that a military dictatorship would not be so bad and thst Brazil might prosper, ignoring how hilariously incompetent the military in Brazil is.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  There was no coup attempt. And you're right that even if there had been one I would not have minded. The reason for that is in my world view I am already living in a dictatorship of the judiciary. So it's not that I don't value democracy, it's that Brazil is not really a democracy to begin with. If I have to choose between a dictatorship of the military and a dictatorship of a communist judiciary, I'd rather live under the military one. An actual democracy would be nice but it doesn't seem to be one of the available choices. I'm not sure that I'm politically aligned with the military either. It's not like its a right wing haven. Lots of communists in there too and it got even worse after Lula reached power. I chose my words very carefully specifically because I wanted to avoid even the implication that I think the military is competent. I refer to the brazilian military as the "armed pensionists", they do literally nothing other than suck up our taxpayer money. I wish it was different. I still think they are preferrable to communists in power but that's a very low bar to begin with. Even so, it would be unwise to underestimate what a military state is capable of. The brazilian dictatorship was responsible for major industrialization and the imports replacement policy. This contributed to the creation of the Lua programming language, for example. I sure as hell want Brazil go even further than that, and these communists aren't getting the job done.
  - yimmothathird 2y ago
    > If I have to choose between a dictatorship of the military and a dictatorship of a communist judiciary, I'd rather live under the military one. Have you tried asking the CIA?
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      The CIA and NSA are already involved. The CIA in particular essentially gave the brazilian right the evidence that got our current president arrested for corruption years ago. Biden's CIA guy literally told our former president to stop questioning the elections in a public statement, even some american journalists noticed. The left constantly accused Bolsonaro of being a CIA puppet and I don't even doubt those claims. I just wonder what happened behind the curtains that soured the CIA's opinion of him.