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> Americans don’t vote in foreign elections > Noncitizens shouldn’t vote in ours He means American citizens that aren't also citizens of a (democratic-esque) f

> Americans don’t vote in foreign elections > Noncitizens shouldn’t vote in ours He means American citizens that aren't also citizens of a (democratic-esque) foreign nation don't vote in that foreign nation's elections. Genuine question: did you not understand that?

remram 2y ago
I mean the whole tweet. What is his point that he is making by pointing out this fact? Genuine question: do you think every line in Mike Lee's tweet is an independent fact that should be taken as totally unconnected, and happen to be in the same post by chance?
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  You're just being silly. I replied to Paul because he took a single line in Mike's tweet as an independent statement without considering the context, and then turned around and insulted the OPs intelligence. I'll try to break it down for you because your being so genuine. I've explained the first line already. The next line follows up by saying that noncitizens (people who are not American citizens specifically) shouldn’t have the right to vote in U.S. elections. It then calls for the passage of something called the SAVE ACT, which Mike wants to be included in the upcoming September spending bill, to prevent noncitizens from voting. Finally, the tweet encourages people who agree with this idea to share the message with others, amplifying its reach. I don't think I can break it down any further without coming off as patronizing. And I hope it's very clear that I'm not reading the lines in the tweet as separate unconnected ideas.
  - remram 2y ago
    > noncitizens (people who are not American citizens specifically) shouldn’t have the right to vote in U.S. elections They already can't, and they already don't. Mike knows that, Paul knows that. You are going to have to try again...
    - davidmurdoch 2y ago
      > You are going to have to try again... I guess I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be "trying"? What point to you think he was making by pointing out this fact (to use your words)? > They already can't, and they already don't. A did a Google search for "estimations for number of non-citizens that vote" from my US IP address. I've cherry picked the one that is in Mike's favor (claiming 10% to 27% of votes): https://www.justfacts.com/news_non-citizen_voter_registration https://www.justfacts.com/news_non-citizen_voter_registratio... And a good one in your favor (claiming 0.0001% of votes): https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/noncitizen-voting-already-illegal-and-vanishingly-rare https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/nonc... --- So I don't know what is really going on, but I do enjoy reading and trying to better understand these complex topics, but I don't want to debate you on this, from either side. If you are really just itching to debate on this topic, you should ask ChatGPT to do that with you; I've responded enough on here that you can probably get it to reply in my style of writing and pretend it's me, if you really wanted (I'd actually love to _read_ the debate if you actually do this!). --- Aside: I found a website that attempts to give a "Bias Rating" to publishers: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/just-facts-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/just-facts-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/brennan-center-justice-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/brennan-center-justice-... This website is obviously not going to be foolproof, and probably even has some bias itself in its ratings. I'm not suggesting these "Bias Ratings" have any bearing on the legitimacy of the studies above, I just found it interesting so I thought I'd share it with you.

remram 2y ago

I mean the whole tweet. What is his point that he is making by pointing out this fact? Genuine question: do you think every line in Mike Lee's tweet is an independent fact that should be taken as totally unconnected, and happen to be in the same post by chance?

davidmurdoch 2y ago
You're just being silly. I replied to Paul because he took a single line in Mike's tweet as an independent statement without considering the context, and then turned around and insulted the OPs intelligence. I'll try to break it down for you because your being so genuine. I've explained the first line already. The next line follows up by saying that noncitizens (people who are not American citizens specifically) shouldn’t have the right to vote in U.S. elections. It then calls for the passage of something called the SAVE ACT, which Mike wants to be included in the upcoming September spending bill, to prevent noncitizens from voting. Finally, the tweet encourages people who agree with this idea to share the message with others, amplifying its reach. I don't think I can break it down any further without coming off as patronizing. And I hope it's very clear that I'm not reading the lines in the tweet as separate unconnected ideas.
- remram 2y ago
  > noncitizens (people who are not American citizens specifically) shouldn’t have the right to vote in U.S. elections They already can't, and they already don't. Mike knows that, Paul knows that. You are going to have to try again...
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    > You are going to have to try again... I guess I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be "trying"? What point to you think he was making by pointing out this fact (to use your words)? > They already can't, and they already don't. A did a Google search for "estimations for number of non-citizens that vote" from my US IP address. I've cherry picked the one that is in Mike's favor (claiming 10% to 27% of votes): https://www.justfacts.com/news_non-citizen_voter_registration https://www.justfacts.com/news_non-citizen_voter_registratio... And a good one in your favor (claiming 0.0001% of votes): https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/noncitizen-voting-already-illegal-and-vanishingly-rare https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/nonc... --- So I don't know what is really going on, but I do enjoy reading and trying to better understand these complex topics, but I don't want to debate you on this, from either side. If you are really just itching to debate on this topic, you should ask ChatGPT to do that with you; I've responded enough on here that you can probably get it to reply in my style of writing and pretend it's me, if you really wanted (I'd actually love to _read_ the debate if you actually do this!). --- Aside: I found a website that attempts to give a "Bias Rating" to publishers: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/just-facts-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/just-facts-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/brennan-center-justice-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/brennan-center-justice-... This website is obviously not going to be foolproof, and probably even has some bias itself in its ratings. I'm not suggesting these "Bias Ratings" have any bearing on the legitimacy of the studies above, I just found it interesting so I thought I'd share it with you.