4 ms·

If the public at large is getting the profits (community service), and there are a high number of dangerous criminals who are not being prosecuted (there are),

If the public at large is getting the profits (community service), and there are a high number of dangerous criminals who are not being prosecuted (there are), then… cool. We agree.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
Community service has a particular problem in the context you're trying to use it in though, doesn't it? Where community service works if for e.g. misbehaving kids with non-absentee parents. Because then the parents make sure the kid actually does the community service, and the kid is thereby deterred from doing it again. If you do the same thing for someone who is going to blow off the community service, then you'd need the police to make them do the community service, and police get six figures in salary and benefits, so that's a very expensive babysitter and you've eliminated any kind of net benefit.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  No, because the people are already a net drain on society. They already require dedicated police force, they already require dedicated sanitation force, food stamps, etcetcetc. And that’s not to mention the health and psychological cost on society of not being able to walk freely without fear cracked out guy will assault you. I’m not proposing moving from these people providing $0.00 to taking whatever a person to monitor their work and provide institutional food costs, I’m proposing we move from these people costing a society a shitload, both financially and health/safety wise, to perhaps similar financially, but removing the health and safety burden and finally putting them on a path to success.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    You're proposing putting them in prison, and for a reason, because otherwise they just blow it off. It turns out that's really expensive though, e.g. California pays $128k/prisoner/year. Now you're going to have them do some kind of menial labor with a value of what, $10k/year or less? You're still >$100k/year in the red, which has to be less than the per-person inconvenience of having them out in the world. It also costs a lot more than building homeless shelters. It even costs more than mental health services and welfare programs, neither of which are cheap. It is quite possibly the most expensive option that anyone regularly proposes.

If the public at large is getting the profits (community service), and there are a high number of dangerous criminals who are not being prosecuted (there are), then… cool. We agree.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

Community service has a particular problem in the context you're trying to use it in though, doesn't it? Where community service works if for e.g. misbehaving kids with non-absentee parents. Because then the parents make sure the kid actually does the community service, and the kid is thereby deterred from doing it again. If you do the same thing for someone who is going to blow off the community service, then you'd need the police to make them do the community service, and police get six figures in salary and benefits, so that's a very expensive babysitter and you've eliminated any kind of net benefit.

dumbo-octopus 2y ago
No, because the people are already a net drain on society. They already require dedicated police force, they already require dedicated sanitation force, food stamps, etcetcetc. And that’s not to mention the health and psychological cost on society of not being able to walk freely without fear cracked out guy will assault you. I’m not proposing moving from these people providing $0.00 to taking whatever a person to monitor their work and provide institutional food costs, I’m proposing we move from these people costing a society a shitload, both financially and health/safety wise, to perhaps similar financially, but removing the health and safety burden and finally putting them on a path to success.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  You're proposing putting them in prison, and for a reason, because otherwise they just blow it off. It turns out that's really expensive though, e.g. California pays $128k/prisoner/year. Now you're going to have them do some kind of menial labor with a value of what, $10k/year or less? You're still >$100k/year in the red, which has to be less than the per-person inconvenience of having them out in the world. It also costs a lot more than building homeless shelters. It even costs more than mental health services and welfare programs, neither of which are cheap. It is quite possibly the most expensive option that anyone regularly proposes.