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Countries that dump solar panels on the international market to kill off foreign competition are really demonstrating that... During the Obama years the US inve

Countries that dump solar panels on the international market to kill off foreign competition are really demonstrating that... During the Obama years the US invested heavily in Solar, and developed many of the technical innovations that make cheap solar possible today. Unfortunately the people who did this work were not able to keep up with the CCP subsidizing solar panels well below cost. They folded and the US has very little domestic solar panel manufacturing by comparison. This is unfortunate if you believe in a sustainable economy, especially since a domestic industry might have funded further R&D efforts. The tariffs are maybe too little too late for saving the nascent US solar manufacturing industry, but the issues of trade policy and climate policy are not always straightforward.

henry2023 2y ago
What makes you think that cheap solar panels aren’t the product of economy of scale in a country that just likes to build stuff?
- blululu 2y ago
  That’s part of it, but America is also a country that routinely achieves economies of scale and loves to build stuff so there is clearly more going on here. Look back at what was commercially and technically available 15 years ago and it is not a viable mainstream energy supply at the scale needed to have the deployment we see today. The US developed a number of key innovations that made this feasible. A lot of this was funded under Obama era energy policy, but no efforts were made to protect the native industry from an unsustainable market force which sadly meant that the policy did not get the ROI that it might have otherwise achieved.
  - deleted 2y ago
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pjc50 2y ago
> CCP subsidizing solar panels well below cost So we should allow them to subsidize the Western energy transition? And cost the CCP money at the same time? Literally have the Chinese taxpayer pay for cheap Western energy? I see the same dynamic playing out with EVs: "EVs are too expensive we have to subsidize them!" <China produces EVs that are cheaper than Western cars> "EVs are too cheap, we have to tariff them!" This is just handing taxpayer cash to Tesla shareholders with extra steps. > many of the technical innovations that make cheap solar possible today Name some? Because it looks to me like a straightforward learning and scaling curve in Chinese factories. If they were actually infringing US patents they'd be blocked on that basis, which tells me they aren't.

henry2023 2y ago

What makes you think that cheap solar panels aren’t the product of economy of scale in a country that just likes to build stuff?

blululu 2y ago
That’s part of it, but America is also a country that routinely achieves economies of scale and loves to build stuff so there is clearly more going on here. Look back at what was commercially and technically available 15 years ago and it is not a viable mainstream energy supply at the scale needed to have the deployment we see today. The US developed a number of key innovations that made this feasible. A lot of this was funded under Obama era energy policy, but no efforts were made to protect the native industry from an unsustainable market force which sadly meant that the policy did not get the ROI that it might have otherwise achieved.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

pjc50 2y ago

> CCP subsidizing solar panels well below cost So we should allow them to subsidize the Western energy transition? And cost the CCP money at the same time? Literally have the Chinese taxpayer pay for cheap Western energy? I see the same dynamic playing out with EVs: "EVs are too expensive we have to subsidize them!" <China produces EVs that are cheaper than Western cars> "EVs are too cheap, we have to tariff them!" This is just handing taxpayer cash to Tesla shareholders with extra steps. > many of the technical innovations that make cheap solar possible today Name some? Because it looks to me like a straightforward learning and scaling curve in Chinese factories. If they were actually infringing US patents they'd be blocked on that basis, which tells me they aren't.