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Minimum wage isn’t the issue here. You said 30-50 cents an hour isn’t “relevant” yourself, but haven’t backed that up with anything. They could be paid 0 for al

Minimum wage isn’t the issue here. You said 30-50 cents an hour isn’t “relevant” yourself, but haven’t backed that up with anything. They could be paid 0 for all I care, the situation would be the same: folks who have stolen something from society (be it direct financial losses or more abstract things like health and safety and peaceful movement) being made to give retributions back to society for their crimes. There are easy wins here (trash), and more involved projects.

Retric 2y ago
> haven’t backed that up with anything It’s backed up by the finite supply of unemployed people willing and able to work below minimum wage. As to your obsession with clean streets, the government does spend money on it the general public doesn’t actually care enough to spend more on it. It doesn’t matter how cheap it is as long as nobody is willing to fund it.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  Elaborate. As of yet you’ve said nothing to refute the idea that forcing people who aren’t working to start working would result in more work being completed.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > Elaborate. As of yet you’ve said nothing to refute the idea that forcing people who aren’t working to start working would result in more work being completed. That’s literally the first time you made that argument, so obviously I didn’t counter it.
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      That’s the concept behind the entire discussion. I don’t know how you’ve missed it.
      - Retric 2y ago
        Prisons labor is already forced. It’s even an enumerated exception in the constitution. If you argument was simply to send these people to prison then just suggest that. The only thing worth discussing is non prison labor and thus non forced labor.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Has the parent comment already fallen out of your context window? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41386593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41386593 That’s exactly what I’m suggesting, you’re wasting my time if you can’t even keep track of a basic thread.
        Retric 2y ago
        > out of your context window Nope, the original context: There are no jobs that want jobless people. There's few that even want 18 year olds Your response was: Plenty of work for prison laborers. My response of “at 20-50 cents an hour, but that’s not really relevant here.“ Obviously 20-50 cents is the nominal prison labor rate, but it also excludes the overhead of keeping prisoners which is what makes it “irrelevant” as a cost. Thus by responding to the nominal rate you implicitly acknowledged we are no longer talking about prisoners because the actual cost of prison labor is ~64,000$ / year / inmate not their nominal wage.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401102
        Retric 2y ago
        “No, because the people are already a net drain on society.” Not a 64,000$ drain on society. There’s roughly 1 correction officer per 4.9 inmates and that excludes many jobs associated with prisoners like administrative staff etc. Inmates are really fucking expensive.
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    And again, nobody is willing to fund it at the current price. It’s simple economics that if the price were to be lower, the willingness to buy it would go up. I don’t need to explain this to you.
    - Retric 2y ago
      > willingness to buy it would go up You are basing things on economics 101 models, demand curves max out. People don’t drink infinite water when it gets cheap enough. I don’t think streets need to be cleaned as much as they are, and that’s not based on how much it costs to clean them.
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Okay so we won’t clean your street? Are so so naive to think there aren’t any streets in the entire country that could use cleaning?
        Retric 2y ago
        I’ve never seen a street and thought it needed to be cleaned more often at taxpayer expense.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Have you ever seen a struggling person on the street and thought they could be rehabilitated to a working life at taxpayer expense?
        Retric 2y ago
        Never really had that thought, most people get off the streets. Long term homeless are on the streets almost exclusively for reasons of severe mental illness not lack of skills etc.
        2y ago

Retric 2y ago

> haven’t backed that up with anything It’s backed up by the finite supply of unemployed people willing and able to work below minimum wage. As to your obsession with clean streets, the government does spend money on it the general public doesn’t actually care enough to spend more on it. It doesn’t matter how cheap it is as long as nobody is willing to fund it.

dumbo-octopus 2y ago
Elaborate. As of yet you’ve said nothing to refute the idea that forcing people who aren’t working to start working would result in more work being completed.
- Retric 2y ago
  > Elaborate. As of yet you’ve said nothing to refute the idea that forcing people who aren’t working to start working would result in more work being completed. That’s literally the first time you made that argument, so obviously I didn’t counter it.
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    That’s the concept behind the entire discussion. I don’t know how you’ve missed it.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Prisons labor is already forced. It’s even an enumerated exception in the constitution. If you argument was simply to send these people to prison then just suggest that. The only thing worth discussing is non prison labor and thus non forced labor.
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Has the parent comment already fallen out of your context window? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41386593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41386593 That’s exactly what I’m suggesting, you’re wasting my time if you can’t even keep track of a basic thread.
        Retric 2y ago
        > out of your context window Nope, the original context: There are no jobs that want jobless people. There's few that even want 18 year olds Your response was: Plenty of work for prison laborers. My response of “at 20-50 cents an hour, but that’s not really relevant here.“ Obviously 20-50 cents is the nominal prison labor rate, but it also excludes the overhead of keeping prisoners which is what makes it “irrelevant” as a cost. Thus by responding to the nominal rate you implicitly acknowledged we are no longer talking about prisoners because the actual cost of prison labor is ~64,000$ / year / inmate not their nominal wage.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41401102
        Retric 2y ago
        “No, because the people are already a net drain on society.” Not a 64,000$ drain on society. There’s roughly 1 correction officer per 4.9 inmates and that excludes many jobs associated with prisoners like administrative staff etc. Inmates are really fucking expensive.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  And again, nobody is willing to fund it at the current price. It’s simple economics that if the price were to be lower, the willingness to buy it would go up. I don’t need to explain this to you.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > willingness to buy it would go up You are basing things on economics 101 models, demand curves max out. People don’t drink infinite water when it gets cheap enough. I don’t think streets need to be cleaned as much as they are, and that’s not based on how much it costs to clean them.
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      Okay so we won’t clean your street? Are so so naive to think there aren’t any streets in the entire country that could use cleaning?
      - Retric 2y ago
        I’ve never seen a street and thought it needed to be cleaned more often at taxpayer expense.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        Have you ever seen a struggling person on the street and thought they could be rehabilitated to a working life at taxpayer expense?
        Retric 2y ago
        Never really had that thought, most people get off the streets. Long term homeless are on the streets almost exclusively for reasons of severe mental illness not lack of skills etc.
        2y ago