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What they're getting at is that it probably would have been better if the Rust people had started their own kernel project, cherry-picked the pieces of Linux th

What they're getting at is that it probably would have been better if the Rust people had started their own kernel project, cherry-picked the pieces of Linux they wanted, and then made their own new thing without three decades of obsolete Unix/Linux baggage. This would mean they could spend their time actually writing software and and less time trying to convince a bunch of C programmers that their time is at an end and their influence is counterproductive.

steveklabnik 2y ago
Describing it as “the Rust people” as though they are separate from the a Linux project is a rhetorical sleight of hand to imply some sort of outside invasion. These are a Linux kernel people who want to use Rust. Writing a new kernel would be fundamentally different than working on Linux. Also, they are “writing software,” and have been for a long time now. This isn’t just some random arguing on mailing lists, this is actual patches, with folks like Asahi and Android writing real meaningful drivers on top of it.
- Suzuran 2y ago
  They are separate from the other kernel developers, but not in the negative way you seem to want to assign to me. They aren't an outside invasion, they are a cultural revolution. They may want to work on Linux but it's clear that the rest of the Linux developer community does not want to allow it, for reasons you are free to interpret as positive or negative as you see fit. They want to write software, and they are getting somewhere, but they are restricted by the attitudes of the rest of the Linux kernel people fighting against them, so they are sucked into constant flamewars and divisive infighting. All just so they can say what they are working on is "Linux". At the end, the question must be asked whether or not Linux and its decades of Linux/Unix baggage are worth holding back the progress represented by a kernel that is Rust from top to bottom, and written with safety and security as its top priorities from day zero instead of decades after.
pjmlp 2y ago
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prmoustache 2y ago
> "the Rust people" There is no such thing. There are people developing a complete OS in Rust: https://github.com/flosse/rust-os-comparison https://github.com/flosse/rust-os-comparison There are people interested in making the Linux kernel more memory safe using Rust. And from what I am observing they aren't interested in a hard fork and are looking for collaboration. These are different populations. Contrary to what Theodore Ts'o is ignorantly saying, Rust is not a religion.

steveklabnik 2y ago

Describing it as “the Rust people” as though they are separate from the a Linux project is a rhetorical sleight of hand to imply some sort of outside invasion. These are a Linux kernel people who want to use Rust. Writing a new kernel would be fundamentally different than working on Linux. Also, they are “writing software,” and have been for a long time now. This isn’t just some random arguing on mailing lists, this is actual patches, with folks like Asahi and Android writing real meaningful drivers on top of it.

Suzuran 2y ago
They are separate from the other kernel developers, but not in the negative way you seem to want to assign to me. They aren't an outside invasion, they are a cultural revolution. They may want to work on Linux but it's clear that the rest of the Linux developer community does not want to allow it, for reasons you are free to interpret as positive or negative as you see fit. They want to write software, and they are getting somewhere, but they are restricted by the attitudes of the rest of the Linux kernel people fighting against them, so they are sucked into constant flamewars and divisive infighting. All just so they can say what they are working on is "Linux". At the end, the question must be asked whether or not Linux and its decades of Linux/Unix baggage are worth holding back the progress represented by a kernel that is Rust from top to bottom, and written with safety and security as its top priorities from day zero instead of decades after.

pjmlp 2y ago

TockOS, Redox, Hubris,... Window GDI regions, CoreWrite, Drivers SDK Android Copilot+ PC firmware

prmoustache 2y ago

> "the Rust people" There is no such thing. There are people developing a complete OS in Rust: https://github.com/flosse/rust-os-comparison https://github.com/flosse/rust-os-comparison There are people interested in making the Linux kernel more memory safe using Rust. And from what I am observing they aren't interested in a hard fork and are looking for collaboration. These are different populations. Contrary to what Theodore Ts'o is ignorantly saying, Rust is not a religion.