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From an evolutionary standpoint, animals cycle from obese to slim year round. Obesity is normal in autumn. Being slim is normal in spring/early summer. Food sta

From an evolutionary standpoint, animals cycle from obese to slim year round. Obesity is normal in autumn. Being slim is normal in spring/early summer. Food state wise we are in a eternal autumn.

chmod775 2y ago
There's no "normal" obesity or time when obesity is normal. The disease is characterized by an abnormal weight by definition. An animal who has a normal weight for one of its species at some time of year is not obese.
- lostapathy 2y ago
  Bears that go into winter slim aren’t bears at all come spring.
  - lm28469 2y ago
    Yeah because bears totally have the same lifestyle and hibernation patterns has humans...
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      Of course we don't, but then again I think bears were just thrown in as an (extreme) example. As I read the thread before that, the point was that most animals' weights vary on an annual cycle, fattened up during summer-autumn and slimmer after the winter. Which seems fairly uncontroversial to me.
  - bequanna 2y ago
    Humans are not bears. Also, the life expectancy of humans is >10x a bear. Why are people bending over backwards to normalize diabetes and obesity? The weeds in a garden need to be pulled or they will take the garden. Problems need to be recognized and then fixed, anything else is delusion.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      Not true. Bears live about 25 years. 35-40 years in captivity. I don’t think they’re normalizing obesity upthread, they’re merely pointing out that in nature accumulation of significant quantities of subcutaneous and visceral fat is normal, as are periods of starvation that we no longer experience.
      - lostapathy 2y ago
        Correct - I wasn't trying to normalize obesity upthread, at all. Bears are an example that shows very clearly it's normal for animals in nature to become very much "not lean" to survive, and the drive to put on fat stores is probably much broader in nature than animals that hibernate to survive winter. What's unique about humans is that we've engineered our environment to the point that most of us no longer suffer long stretches of being unfed or underfed to strip the excess fat stores off of us. Some people are clearly better than others at fighting the behavior evolution has programmed into them. It's not good for them today, but at the same time that drive for survival is what kept their ancestors alive.
    - InDubioProRubio 2y ago
      We are not defending obesity, we are advocating for a balanced view, while you are busy with your little crusade. My suggestion is to look at old black/white tribal photos of natives. They do not fullfill your beauty standards, but they lived normal sustenance lifes. And yes, the woman and men have bellies. Not huge ones, but noticeable ones. Same thing in the animal kingdom. The dominant monkey in a harem, besides the normal hormonal dominance meat-mountain bloat, usually has a belly. Our beauty standard is met by animals in distress, being pushed into marginal territories. Healthy is, somewhere in the middle, not on either side of the isles of madness.
      - bequanna 2y ago
        If you are overweight, you need to take responsibility and change your lifestyle. Of course, everyone instinctively knows this even if they want to use mental gymnastics to explain why it is OK. Alcoholics, drug addicts, etc are defensive too and have many excuses at the ready for why their behavior is acceptable. In the end, however, reality will hit hard and five dollar words aren’t going to save the obese and those with unhealthy lifestyles from sickness and early death.
inglor_cz 2y ago
This only really applies to some animals which developed in moderate climate. Most primates including us humans are tropical and subtropical creatures, which didn't face classical winters until relatively recently. The Neanderthals did, for a considerable amount of time, and their physiology might have been different, but the Neanderthals were also developed enough to protect themselves using clothing and shelters, and possibly store food, so physiological adjustments might not have been necessary. Modern humans are basically Africans adapted to ~ Kenyan climate, though. (Yeah I know about the Neanderthal and Denisovan admixture.)
moi2388 2y ago
From an evolutionary standpoint, like bears, we only managed to survive long enough for our offspring to have offspring, which is all that matters for evolution. I never understood why these references are being made regarding health. Bears aren’t healthy. Bears don’t live long. Ancient people weren’t healthy, their diets weren’t healthy and they had lots of untreated issues as well.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  > Bears aren’t healthy. Bears don’t live long. I supose quite a few bears live quite long lives -- for being bears. > Ancient people weren’t healthy, their diets weren’t healthy and they had lots of untreated issues as well. As far as I've gathered from (pop-sci summaries of fairly recent-ish) research, people in prehistoric and pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer societies were on average at least as healty as -- and often healthier than -- people in later agricultural societies, from the Bronze and Iron Ages through antiquity, the Middle Ages and Renaissance, up until at least the early Modern Age and quite possibly through to our days of (relative, unequally-distributed) affluence and its concomitant recent global obesity.

From an evolutionary standpoint, animals cycle from obese to slim year round. Obesity is normal in autumn. Being slim is normal in spring/early summer. Food state wise we are in a eternal autumn.

chmod775 2y ago

There's no "normal" obesity or time when obesity is normal. The disease is characterized by an abnormal weight by definition. An animal who has a normal weight for one of its species at some time of year is not obese.

lostapathy 2y ago
Bears that go into winter slim aren’t bears at all come spring.
- lm28469 2y ago
  Yeah because bears totally have the same lifestyle and hibernation patterns has humans...
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Of course we don't, but then again I think bears were just thrown in as an (extreme) example. As I read the thread before that, the point was that most animals' weights vary on an annual cycle, fattened up during summer-autumn and slimmer after the winter. Which seems fairly uncontroversial to me.
- bequanna 2y ago
  Humans are not bears. Also, the life expectancy of humans is >10x a bear. Why are people bending over backwards to normalize diabetes and obesity? The weeds in a garden need to be pulled or they will take the garden. Problems need to be recognized and then fixed, anything else is delusion.
  - ein0p 2y ago
    Not true. Bears live about 25 years. 35-40 years in captivity. I don’t think they’re normalizing obesity upthread, they’re merely pointing out that in nature accumulation of significant quantities of subcutaneous and visceral fat is normal, as are periods of starvation that we no longer experience.
    - lostapathy 2y ago
      Correct - I wasn't trying to normalize obesity upthread, at all. Bears are an example that shows very clearly it's normal for animals in nature to become very much "not lean" to survive, and the drive to put on fat stores is probably much broader in nature than animals that hibernate to survive winter. What's unique about humans is that we've engineered our environment to the point that most of us no longer suffer long stretches of being unfed or underfed to strip the excess fat stores off of us. Some people are clearly better than others at fighting the behavior evolution has programmed into them. It's not good for them today, but at the same time that drive for survival is what kept their ancestors alive.
  - InDubioProRubio 2y ago
    We are not defending obesity, we are advocating for a balanced view, while you are busy with your little crusade. My suggestion is to look at old black/white tribal photos of natives. They do not fullfill your beauty standards, but they lived normal sustenance lifes. And yes, the woman and men have bellies. Not huge ones, but noticeable ones. Same thing in the animal kingdom. The dominant monkey in a harem, besides the normal hormonal dominance meat-mountain bloat, usually has a belly. Our beauty standard is met by animals in distress, being pushed into marginal territories. Healthy is, somewhere in the middle, not on either side of the isles of madness.
    - bequanna 2y ago
      If you are overweight, you need to take responsibility and change your lifestyle. Of course, everyone instinctively knows this even if they want to use mental gymnastics to explain why it is OK. Alcoholics, drug addicts, etc are defensive too and have many excuses at the ready for why their behavior is acceptable. In the end, however, reality will hit hard and five dollar words aren’t going to save the obese and those with unhealthy lifestyles from sickness and early death.

inglor_cz 2y ago

This only really applies to some animals which developed in moderate climate. Most primates including us humans are tropical and subtropical creatures, which didn't face classical winters until relatively recently. The Neanderthals did, for a considerable amount of time, and their physiology might have been different, but the Neanderthals were also developed enough to protect themselves using clothing and shelters, and possibly store food, so physiological adjustments might not have been necessary. Modern humans are basically Africans adapted to ~ Kenyan climate, though. (Yeah I know about the Neanderthal and Denisovan admixture.)

moi2388 2y ago

From an evolutionary standpoint, like bears, we only managed to survive long enough for our offspring to have offspring, which is all that matters for evolution. I never understood why these references are being made regarding health. Bears aren’t healthy. Bears don’t live long. Ancient people weren’t healthy, their diets weren’t healthy and they had lots of untreated issues as well.

CRConrad 2y ago
> Bears aren’t healthy. Bears don’t live long. I supose quite a few bears live quite long lives -- for being bears. > Ancient people weren’t healthy, their diets weren’t healthy and they had lots of untreated issues as well. As far as I've gathered from (pop-sci summaries of fairly recent-ish) research, people in prehistoric and pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer societies were on average at least as healty as -- and often healthier than -- people in later agricultural societies, from the Bronze and Iron Ages through antiquity, the Middle Ages and Renaissance, up until at least the early Modern Age and quite possibly through to our days of (relative, unequally-distributed) affluence and its concomitant recent global obesity.