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I am surprised to find out that Einstein was so convinced in the non-existence of free will. > I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginn

I am surprised to find out that Einstein was so convinced in the non-existence of free will. > I claim credit for nothing. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible player. Meanwhile, I believe, that you can also be a determinist and believe in free will.

layer8 2y ago
It probably depends on what you mean by free will. People who disagree about determinism and/or compatibilism usually can’t agree on a common definition of free will either. Your Einstein quote above doesn’t necessarily deny free will.
- lazystar 2y ago
  in the article, Einstein is firm regarding his belief that there is no free will. there are many other quotes in the article to choose from. anyway, my own view is that ones belief or disbeleif in free will is predetermined - if one could predict the path of every atom and molecule in the galaxy from the start of time until now, theyd be able to predict what choices a random person would make before the person had decided. for example, being able to predict if someone would read the linked article before commenting on it :-)
  - The_Colonel 2y ago
    What you're describing is physical determinism which is related but not equivalent to the question of free will. Compatibilism is a belief that physical determinism and free will are compatible - e. g. it is predetermined that you will read this article, but it's still an act of free will.
hirvi74 2y ago
> determinist and believe in free will. Do you care to elaborate more? I am genuinely curious about your opinions. Have you read/listened to any of Dr. Robert Sapolsky's material on free will? I am curious what you think of his position on the matter.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  Not the OP but one thing I find interesting about free will is that one of the things you can do with it is to choose to give it up, such as by delegating a decision to either a random process or one that you have no prior knowledge or control over. The act of flipping a coin to decide whether to drive to work or take the bus might end up altering the course of your life to an extent that no other decision you make that day will. Given how often we delegate whatever free will we have, intentionally or otherwise, it's easy to conclude (or at least suspect) that whether or not it exists in the first place simply isn't an interesting or important question. Sure, we might have free will, but if we do it's almost overwhelmed by noise.
- slibhb 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism As far as Sapolsky goes, it's fine to argue that free will is an illusion. But it doesn't follow that we should stop believing in it. Actually, belief in free will is adaptive. Concepts that follow from free will such as punishment, guilt, blame, etc are extremely effective at promoting pro-social behavior and it's not clear how they could be replaced.
- The_Colonel 2y ago
  Not the op, but I will give it a shot. Free will relates to identity - there needs to be someone exercising the free will. So, what am I? I identify as the whole physical system of my body and especially my brain. The neurons, their connections, the atoms, the laws governing the interactions. I think people rejecting free will are considering physics to be some kind of external harness, constraint on themselves. But in my view, physics permeates my body. There's no myself without the physics (be it deterministic or not), it's an inseparable part of my system, ergo myself. In a deterministic universe, my thoughts and actions are driven by the configuration of matter, energy and physics in my body. But all of that is me.
j-a-a-p 2y ago
> ... by forces over which we have no control That would be logical if we would be a simulation.
deleted 2y ago
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anthk 2y ago
Again, I'm tired of pseaudo new-age bullshit quackery. There's no free will, either being deterministic or sightly shifted because of weird quantum effects. You are your brain, and your brain will work under the rules of the Universe, whether you like it or not.
AQuantized 2y ago
Einstein was enamored with the philosophies of Schopenhauer and Spinoza, in Schopenhauer's conception of the will and Spinoza's pantheism. The God of Spinoza (or indeed Einstein) is strictly deterministic, and we are all a part of such a God, as is all of nature. Hence his quote 'God does not play dice', and in part it explains Einstein's philosophical commitment against some of the indeterministic interpretations of quantum physics being ultimately true.

layer8 2y ago

It probably depends on what you mean by free will. People who disagree about determinism and/or compatibilism usually can’t agree on a common definition of free will either. Your Einstein quote above doesn’t necessarily deny free will.

lazystar 2y ago
in the article, Einstein is firm regarding his belief that there is no free will. there are many other quotes in the article to choose from. anyway, my own view is that ones belief or disbeleif in free will is predetermined - if one could predict the path of every atom and molecule in the galaxy from the start of time until now, theyd be able to predict what choices a random person would make before the person had decided. for example, being able to predict if someone would read the linked article before commenting on it :-)
- The_Colonel 2y ago
  What you're describing is physical determinism which is related but not equivalent to the question of free will. Compatibilism is a belief that physical determinism and free will are compatible - e. g. it is predetermined that you will read this article, but it's still an act of free will.

hirvi74 2y ago

> determinist and believe in free will. Do you care to elaborate more? I am genuinely curious about your opinions. Have you read/listened to any of Dr. Robert Sapolsky's material on free will? I am curious what you think of his position on the matter.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
CamperBob2 2y ago
Not the OP but one thing I find interesting about free will is that one of the things you can do with it is to choose to give it up, such as by delegating a decision to either a random process or one that you have no prior knowledge or control over. The act of flipping a coin to decide whether to drive to work or take the bus might end up altering the course of your life to an extent that no other decision you make that day will. Given how often we delegate whatever free will we have, intentionally or otherwise, it's easy to conclude (or at least suspect) that whether or not it exists in the first place simply isn't an interesting or important question. Sure, we might have free will, but if we do it's almost overwhelmed by noise.
slibhb 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism As far as Sapolsky goes, it's fine to argue that free will is an illusion. But it doesn't follow that we should stop believing in it. Actually, belief in free will is adaptive. Concepts that follow from free will such as punishment, guilt, blame, etc are extremely effective at promoting pro-social behavior and it's not clear how they could be replaced.
The_Colonel 2y ago
Not the op, but I will give it a shot. Free will relates to identity - there needs to be someone exercising the free will. So, what am I? I identify as the whole physical system of my body and especially my brain. The neurons, their connections, the atoms, the laws governing the interactions. I think people rejecting free will are considering physics to be some kind of external harness, constraint on themselves. But in my view, physics permeates my body. There's no myself without the physics (be it deterministic or not), it's an inseparable part of my system, ergo myself. In a deterministic universe, my thoughts and actions are driven by the configuration of matter, energy and physics in my body. But all of that is me.

j-a-a-p 2y ago

> ... by forces over which we have no control That would be logical if we would be a simulation.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

anthk 2y ago

Again, I'm tired of pseaudo new-age bullshit quackery. There's no free will, either being deterministic or sightly shifted because of weird quantum effects. You are your brain, and your brain will work under the rules of the Universe, whether you like it or not.

AQuantized 2y ago

Einstein was enamored with the philosophies of Schopenhauer and Spinoza, in Schopenhauer's conception of the will and Spinoza's pantheism. The God of Spinoza (or indeed Einstein) is strictly deterministic, and we are all a part of such a God, as is all of nature. Hence his quote 'God does not play dice', and in part it explains Einstein's philosophical commitment against some of the indeterministic interpretations of quantum physics being ultimately true.