3 ms·

Run more trains so the station never reaches capacity. Or expand the station.

HenryBemis 2y ago
Both solutions would take months/years to implement. "More trains" mean they need to radically improve service/repairs and/or purchase of new trains. "Expand the station" would mean that they would have to shut down all-of or large-parts of it while works take place. I remember being impacted of the London Bridge train station de-spaghetti-fying the tracks. I moved out of the area I was living so eventually I was impacted for only 4-5 months. I will not touch the matter of costs.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Nobody said all problems have cheap solutions.
- stuaxo 2y ago
  London bridge tracks untangled is so much better for throughput - I remember so many long waits as a Brighton train blocked the whole station crossing the tracks. One surprising good thing the gov did at that time was insist on the rebuild of the station itself, it was particularly grim, and just a mess. I've lived nearby the whole time and the new station is a nice space, generally efficient with good throughput for the trains. I'm pessimistic, but really hoping they don't stick with plans to build a too small terminus in London for HS1, not too optimistic as we have Rachael Reeves as a continuity austerity Chancellor - lets see.
  - smcl 2y ago
    > plans to build a too small terminus in London for HS1 You're talking about HS2 and Old Oak Common, right? Yeah that's a peculiar choice of terminus
stuaxo 2y ago
Not sure there is more capacity for trains there.
- smcl 2y ago
  There were plans to expand Euston, then the Tories cancelled those plans and sold off the land that was acquired to accommodate said plans to make sure it wouldn't ever happen in the future (by this point they were already collapsing in popularity and clearly going to lose the election).
michaelt 2y ago
> Or expand the station. According to [1] nineteen national rail trains will depart from Euston in the next hour. And according to [2] Euston has 16 platforms. Can a station platform really only dispatch 1.2 trains per hour? Fifty minutes per train? Seems kinda low to me. I guess they need time to clean the trains, and space for trains that arrive well before their scheduled departure time. But still, it seems like a lot of platforms for the number of trains. [1] https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/london-euston/ https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/london... [2] https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Euston-Station-Map.pdf https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Eus...
- smcl 2y ago
  Platforms != distinct rail lines. Now, if only there were plans to run a new national, let's say high speed, rail link from the North of England into Euston which would improve this capacity ...
- shaoonb 2y ago
  The capacity limit is the number of tracks. There are 4 AC and 2 DC tracks on the line out of Euston and they are also used for freight trains as well as the Bakerloo line.
- blitzar 2y ago
  Heathrow has 115 gates but only does 50 departures an hour.
- jonp888 2y ago
  For a full long distance train pausing between two multi-hour trips it's reasonable. 5 Minutes for disembarking, 10 minutes cleaning, 10 minutes for boarding and you have 25 minutes platform occupancy. But on top of that the tracks will be blocked by the train going in and out for a few extra minutes, you need to find a slot on the line itself, and you need to allow for disruption. It's all very inefficient in terms of occupying scarce and inelastic inner-city track capacity, so modern practice is to build through stations if at all possible and send trains off to sidings to be cleaned, but that wasn't practical 100 years ago.

Both solutions would take months/years to implement. "More trains" mean they need to radically improve service/repairs and/or purchase of new trains. "Expand the station" would mean that they would have to shut down all-of or large-parts of it while works take place. I remember being impacted of the London Bridge train station de-spaghetti-fying the tracks. I moved out of the area I was living so eventually I was impacted for only 4-5 months. I will not touch the matter of costs.

lupusreal 2y ago
Nobody said all problems have cheap solutions.
stuaxo 2y ago
London bridge tracks untangled is so much better for throughput - I remember so many long waits as a Brighton train blocked the whole station crossing the tracks. One surprising good thing the gov did at that time was insist on the rebuild of the station itself, it was particularly grim, and just a mess. I've lived nearby the whole time and the new station is a nice space, generally efficient with good throughput for the trains. I'm pessimistic, but really hoping they don't stick with plans to build a too small terminus in London for HS1, not too optimistic as we have Rachael Reeves as a continuity austerity Chancellor - lets see.
- smcl 2y ago
  > plans to build a too small terminus in London for HS1 You're talking about HS2 and Old Oak Common, right? Yeah that's a peculiar choice of terminus

stuaxo 2y ago

Not sure there is more capacity for trains there.

smcl 2y ago
There were plans to expand Euston, then the Tories cancelled those plans and sold off the land that was acquired to accommodate said plans to make sure it wouldn't ever happen in the future (by this point they were already collapsing in popularity and clearly going to lose the election).

michaelt 2y ago

> Or expand the station. According to [1] nineteen national rail trains will depart from Euston in the next hour. And according to [2] Euston has 16 platforms. Can a station platform really only dispatch 1.2 trains per hour? Fifty minutes per train? Seems kinda low to me. I guess they need time to clean the trains, and space for trains that arrive well before their scheduled departure time. But still, it seems like a lot of platforms for the number of trains. [1] https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/london-euston/ https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/london... [2] https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Euston-Station-Map.pdf https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Eus...

smcl 2y ago
Platforms != distinct rail lines. Now, if only there were plans to run a new national, let's say high speed, rail link from the North of England into Euston which would improve this capacity ...
shaoonb 2y ago
The capacity limit is the number of tracks. There are 4 AC and 2 DC tracks on the line out of Euston and they are also used for freight trains as well as the Bakerloo line.
blitzar 2y ago
Heathrow has 115 gates but only does 50 departures an hour.
jonp888 2y ago
For a full long distance train pausing between two multi-hour trips it's reasonable. 5 Minutes for disembarking, 10 minutes cleaning, 10 minutes for boarding and you have 25 minutes platform occupancy. But on top of that the tracks will be blocked by the train going in and out for a few extra minutes, you need to find a slot on the line itself, and you need to allow for disruption. It's all very inefficient in terms of occupying scarce and inelastic inner-city track capacity, so modern practice is to build through stations if at all possible and send trains off to sidings to be cleaned, but that wasn't practical 100 years ago.