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This guy will get 1 years salary as compensation after winning an unfair dismissal case, and then he will never work in rail again. He'll have to pay much of

This guy will get 1 years salary as compensation after winning an unfair dismissal case, and then he will never work in rail again. He'll have to pay much of those winnings back to his legal team. Over his life, he will almost certainly earn less. Shouldn't have spoken out. Had he kept quiet, a crush would have happened, a few people would have been pushed off a platform and died under a train, and it would be a "tragedy" - but he'd get to keep his livelihood.

seanthemon 2y ago
Ironically: The Trolly Problem [0] except the singular person is you. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
tsimionescu 2y ago
I bet even if your predictions are right, he'll still live a happier life knowing he has saved some lives.
scrlk 2y ago
See Roger Boisjoly, an engineer at Morton Thiokol who tried to blow the whistle on design flaws in the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters before the Challenger disaster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly > Boisjoly sent a memo describing the problem to his managers, but was apparently ignored.[8] Following several further memos, a task force was convened to investigate the matter, but after a month Boisjoly realized that the task force had no power, no resources, and no management support. In late 1985, Boisjoly advised his managers that if the problem was not fixed, there was a distinct chance that a shuttle mission would end in disaster. No action was taken. > After President Ronald Reagan ordered a presidential commission to review the disaster, Boisjoly was one of the witnesses called. He gave accounts of how and why he felt the O-rings had failed, and argued that the caucus called by Morton Thiokol managers, which resulted in a recommendation to launch, was an "unethical decision-making forum resulting from intense customer intimidation." > According to Boisjoly, Thiokol unassigned him from space work, and he was ostracized by his colleagues and managers.
vegardx 2y ago
I get the point you're trying to make here, and the sarcastic undertone, but I'd have issues living with myself if people died because of something that I was able to identify and that was preventable, and I did nothing. The whole case strikes me as odd. Not only did the higher ups know about the problem, they also left a paper trail about keeping a lid on it and getting rid of the guy. This opens them up to a lot of scenarios, like: - As demonstrated by this case, the information came out because of the wrongful termination - If an accident had happened there's a fairly high chance that the investigators would uncover it, either because the engineer in question came forward or because they think they should have known about this, and cracks appear when they start asking questions. An unspoken rule in a lot of fields is that you make sure that this kind of information never reaches the people that could be held liable for it. The people that are likely to be held responsible at least have to make it appear that they're not trying to suppress information like this. You quickly lose that ability if you actively try to get rid of people that tries to raise an issue. So they surround themselves with middle management that knows to not bring things up to them, without being explicitly told so.
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  The point is that there are many people sleeping fine or not, that kept their livelihood by not whistleblowing. solely due to the misaligned incentives and lack of accountability
HPsquared 2y ago
Society depends on these kinds of people.
surfingdino 2y ago
He'll find a job as a security consultant abroad. He'll be fine.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Being forced from your home and into moving abroad and into a new career might work out for him, but it's still seems like a lot of unnecessary turmoil for him and and his familybecause he chose to do the right thing.
hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago
You will at max live another 100 years. Where will he take all these extra savings to?
- ninininino 2y ago
  This is going to surprise you, but having more money enables you to spend more of your finite lifespan working on your own initiatives/goals in life (whether they are financially rewarding or not) without needing to persuade someone wealthier than you that they want what you want and are willing to pay to do it.
  - hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago
    I believe there is a non zero probability that you(awareness) are eternal and what you do in this life has consequences in subsequent lives. It's okay for you to disagree. That's just my belief system.
    - ninininino 2y ago
      Ah well I guess I don't understand the relevance of that. Even if you for example have infinite time, doesn't it still make sense a person might be motivated to attain wealth in order to give themselves more freedom in how they spend their life w/o needing to consider affording the survival needs?
      - hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago
        Sorry. I was talking about this example where the person choose to risk a financial loss in favor of performing a more virtuous act for the society. He prefered to live a life with integrity over money.
iudqnolq 2y ago
He's just published a book that looks quite interesting: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Railways-Will-Future-Rediscovering/dp/1915672481/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Railways-Will-Future-Rediscover...
2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
this is the right attitude - exactly.
blitzar 2y ago
The maximum unfair dismissal compensatory award (in the UK) is £105,707. Imagine if the maximum you had to pay if you stole from or defrauded your employer was £100k ... The legislation tends to protect the paper entity 'the corporation' rather than the living breathing human.
- RyanHamilton 2y ago
  Wow, I didn't believe you so googled and I'm stunned. There is a limit for unfair dismissal. Thanks.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  You can still sue the company for other reasons - for example if they stole from you the employee.
datavirtue 2y ago
The system is what it does. And that's the system.
glitchc 2y ago
Yeah, I mean, why even become an engineer? Why work in safety? Let's rubber-stamp everything the manager says it's good. It must be good, they said it! Think about your words the next time you or a relative or a friend is hurt or dies in a preventable accident. Thank god you're not an engineer.
gsky 2y ago
No good deed goes unpunished sadly. what a f..d up world we live in
jonp888 2y ago
His "speaking out" achieved nothing getting him on TV. He's no whistleblower with inside information. His engineering role is to design track geometry and nothing to do with stations or passengers so he has no professional authority to speak on the subject beyond that of an ordinary rail passenger. The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station. In fact, the UK rail safety regulator issued an improvement notice with legal force requiring the operator to take steps to change the situation: https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-requires-crowd-management-improvements-euston-station https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-requires-c...
- lupusreal 2y ago
  > The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station Then you should be ashamed to even try to impune his credentials and say he had no "" professional authority"" to comment on the safety issue. What the fuck!
akira2501 2y ago
> He'll have to pay much of those winnings back to his legal team. I'm not sure about the UK, but in the USA, most lawyers would take this case speculatively and they would charge 30% of the winnings. It's an amount calibrated to just barely be acceptable but it typically isn't as bad as you suggest.

seanthemon 2y ago

Ironically: The Trolly Problem [0] except the singular person is you. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

tsimionescu 2y ago

I bet even if your predictions are right, he'll still live a happier life knowing he has saved some lives.

scrlk 2y ago

See Roger Boisjoly, an engineer at Morton Thiokol who tried to blow the whistle on design flaws in the Space Shuttle's solid rocket boosters before the Challenger disaster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly > Boisjoly sent a memo describing the problem to his managers, but was apparently ignored.[8] Following several further memos, a task force was convened to investigate the matter, but after a month Boisjoly realized that the task force had no power, no resources, and no management support. In late 1985, Boisjoly advised his managers that if the problem was not fixed, there was a distinct chance that a shuttle mission would end in disaster. No action was taken. > After President Ronald Reagan ordered a presidential commission to review the disaster, Boisjoly was one of the witnesses called. He gave accounts of how and why he felt the O-rings had failed, and argued that the caucus called by Morton Thiokol managers, which resulted in a recommendation to launch, was an "unethical decision-making forum resulting from intense customer intimidation." > According to Boisjoly, Thiokol unassigned him from space work, and he was ostracized by his colleagues and managers.

vegardx 2y ago

I get the point you're trying to make here, and the sarcastic undertone, but I'd have issues living with myself if people died because of something that I was able to identify and that was preventable, and I did nothing. The whole case strikes me as odd. Not only did the higher ups know about the problem, they also left a paper trail about keeping a lid on it and getting rid of the guy. This opens them up to a lot of scenarios, like: - As demonstrated by this case, the information came out because of the wrongful termination - If an accident had happened there's a fairly high chance that the investigators would uncover it, either because the engineer in question came forward or because they think they should have known about this, and cracks appear when they start asking questions. An unspoken rule in a lot of fields is that you make sure that this kind of information never reaches the people that could be held liable for it. The people that are likely to be held responsible at least have to make it appear that they're not trying to suppress information like this. You quickly lose that ability if you actively try to get rid of people that tries to raise an issue. So they surround themselves with middle management that knows to not bring things up to them, without being explicitly told so.

yieldcrv 2y ago
The point is that there are many people sleeping fine or not, that kept their livelihood by not whistleblowing. solely due to the misaligned incentives and lack of accountability

HPsquared 2y ago

Society depends on these kinds of people.

surfingdino 2y ago

He'll find a job as a security consultant abroad. He'll be fine.

fragmede 2y ago
Being forced from your home and into moving abroad and into a new career might work out for him, but it's still seems like a lot of unnecessary turmoil for him and and his familybecause he chose to do the right thing.

hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago

You will at max live another 100 years. Where will he take all these extra savings to?

ninininino 2y ago
This is going to surprise you, but having more money enables you to spend more of your finite lifespan working on your own initiatives/goals in life (whether they are financially rewarding or not) without needing to persuade someone wealthier than you that they want what you want and are willing to pay to do it.
- hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago
  I believe there is a non zero probability that you(awareness) are eternal and what you do in this life has consequences in subsequent lives. It's okay for you to disagree. That's just my belief system.
  - ninininino 2y ago
    Ah well I guess I don't understand the relevance of that. Even if you for example have infinite time, doesn't it still make sense a person might be motivated to attain wealth in order to give themselves more freedom in how they spend their life w/o needing to consider affording the survival needs?
    - hwhwhwhhwhwh 2y ago
      Sorry. I was talking about this example where the person choose to risk a financial loss in favor of performing a more virtuous act for the society. He prefered to live a life with integrity over money.

iudqnolq 2y ago

He's just published a book that looks quite interesting: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Railways-Will-Future-Rediscovering/dp/1915672481/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Railways-Will-Future-Rediscover...

2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago

this is the right attitude - exactly.

blitzar 2y ago

The maximum unfair dismissal compensatory award (in the UK) is £105,707. Imagine if the maximum you had to pay if you stole from or defrauded your employer was £100k ... The legislation tends to protect the paper entity 'the corporation' rather than the living breathing human.

RyanHamilton 2y ago
Wow, I didn't believe you so googled and I'm stunned. There is a limit for unfair dismissal. Thanks.
londons_explore 2y ago
You can still sue the company for other reasons - for example if they stole from you the employee.

datavirtue 2y ago

The system is what it does. And that's the system.

glitchc 2y ago

Yeah, I mean, why even become an engineer? Why work in safety? Let's rubber-stamp everything the manager says it's good. It must be good, they said it! Think about your words the next time you or a relative or a friend is hurt or dies in a preventable accident. Thank god you're not an engineer.

gsky 2y ago

No good deed goes unpunished sadly. what a f..d up world we live in

jonp888 2y ago

His "speaking out" achieved nothing getting him on TV. He's no whistleblower with inside information. His engineering role is to design track geometry and nothing to do with stations or passengers so he has no professional authority to speak on the subject beyond that of an ordinary rail passenger. The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station. In fact, the UK rail safety regulator issued an improvement notice with legal force requiring the operator to take steps to change the situation: https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-requires-crowd-management-improvements-euston-station https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/rail-regulator-requires-c...

lupusreal 2y ago
> The problems at Euston are well known and obvious to anyone who uses the station Then you should be ashamed to even try to impune his credentials and say he had no "" professional authority"" to comment on the safety issue. What the fuck!

akira2501 2y ago

> He'll have to pay much of those winnings back to his legal team. I'm not sure about the UK, but in the USA, most lawyers would take this case speculatively and they would charge 30% of the winnings. It's an amount calibrated to just barely be acceptable but it typically isn't as bad as you suggest.