5 ms·

Developer's dream come true: New MacBook Airs now support two external displays

40 points by gaborcselle 14y ago

gaborcselle 14y ago
This is a pretty big deal for designers and developers who love dual-display setups, e.g. for looking at code and docs at the same time. Until now you had to lug around a 15" MacBook Pro to get dual external monitor support.
- Ralith 14y ago
  Or use something other than a MacBook. That's an option too.
  - gaborcselle 14y ago
    The vast majority of developers I know use some version of the MacBook. (However, that could be the San Francisco / New York tech bubble that I live in.)
    - Ralith 14y ago
      Anecdotes are generally worse than meaningless. Still, in the spirit of things, I don't think I know a single MacBook user; sampling biases clearly exist. Tangentally: One is inclined to wonder, if dual display support is such a big deal, why they all use hardware incapable of it.
      - catch23 14y ago
        do your developer friends use linux laptops, or windows running linux vm?
    - fooyc 14y ago
      One MacBook to rule them all
    - flatline3 14y ago
      I don't understand the allure of the laptop for developers. For me, performance easily beats portability. I also have a laptop, but I'd never use it as a primary desktop.
      - 13rules 14y ago
        I run my own company and have a home office and a regular office, each with a mouse, keyboard, and big monitor. With my laptop I can just take it back and forth - all files come with me and the machine is in the exact state when I boot it up at home as when it was at the office. If I need to go out of town, I just take the laptop with me and I can do everything I would normally do, just with a smaller screen. At least for web development, speed usually isn't an issue ... putting in an SSD drive a year or so ago, though, was the best thing I did - very noticeable speed increase! So, for me it's a convenience factor.
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    Are there ultrabooks with dual monitor support? It seems to me that the graphics hardware is the limit (and all ultrabooks use the same one).
    - Ralith 14y ago
      It's fallacious to assume that the majority, or even a sizable proportion of, developers use a portable device of any kind as their primary machine.
      - mkaltenecker 14y ago
        Sure, be the topic of the discussion were developers who do.
        Ralith 14y ago
        What makes you think that? So far the groups of developers that have been called out are "Developers" and "Developers who love dual-display setups." I don't see anything about mobile devices except that gaborcselle seems to think [almost] everybody uses MacBooks, which is the point I'm questioning.
        mkaltenecker 14y ago
        I think it’s pretty clear from the context that developers who would like to use a MBA were meant.
  - jinushaun 14y ago
    But then, instead of lugging around a heavy/bulky MBP, you're lugging around a heavy/bulky PC laptop. Problem not solved.
- scott_meade 14y ago
  Or use Plugable's UGA-2K-A USB to VGA/DVI/HDMI adapters for Multiple Monitors. I've been running three external 1920x1200's off my MacBook Air. http://twitpic.com/9yr3tr/full http://twitpic.com/9yr3tr/full Not Thunderbolt nor 2,560x1,440, yet multiple monitors nonetheless.
  - swah 14y ago
    That's a lot of pixels with integrated graphics :) (IRRC). Don't you find the brightness from the 2nd/3rd displays causes eye strain?
    - rograndom 14y ago
      It's a USB video adapter if I'm reading the product page right http://plugable.com/products/uga-2k-a/ http://plugable.com/products/uga-2k-a/
Ralith 14y ago
Rather presumptuous to imply that developers in general care about MacBook design tweaks, isn't it?
- rch 14y ago
  The hyperbole didn't sit well with me either.
- gaborcselle 14y ago
  Yeah, the title may be a little exaggerated, but most developers I know (including myself) have some version of the MacBook.
cmelbye 14y ago
Wow, that looks amazing. Forgive my ignorance (I don't use external displays with my MBP), but how is this done? Does each display connect to the next display with Thunderbolt daisy chaining?
- modarts 14y ago
  Exactly, the thunderbolt displays have outputs that you can daisy chain with.
- NickM 14y ago
  The new MBP has two Thunderbolt ports and an HDMI output so I assume it's just using each output separately. Not sure about the Air though....
mikeevans 14y ago
Do the displays have to be Thunderbolt displays? Seems really expensive.
- grecy 14y ago
  I'm no expert, but I wonder if you could go: Air->Thunderbolt Dispaly->DVI Adapter->DVI display ? The way I see it, you can't daisy chain without having at least one thunderbolt display.
  - jpxxx 14y ago
    Unfortunately no. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219#dispnum http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219#dispnum Thunderbolt only chains to Thunderbolt. But the port coming out of the Mac will gladly connect to one of anything.
    - teilo 14y ago
      Actually, yes you can, as long as your Mac supports multiple external displays. The only thing you can't do is plug a mini-displayport adapter directly into a Thunderbolt display. But, strangly, you can chain, say, a hard drive to a Thunderbolt display, and then plug the mini-displayport adapter into the hard drive, and that will work. http://www.macworld.com/article/1162365/first_look_apple_thunderbolt_display.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1162365/first_look_apple_thu...
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Negatory. The Thunderbolt port is really just passing through a DisplayPort signal - any DisplayPort monitor will do. Displayport degrades nicely into HDMI, DVI, or VGA with an adapter, so sky's pretty much the limit. The new MacBook Pro does also have a HDMI port which can do all the same.
  - gaborcselle 14y ago
    I didn't know that. Since I have Cinema Display with DisplayPort, could I do MacBook Air > Thunderbolt > Cinema Display?
RossDM 14y ago
So where are the affordable Thunderbolt displays? Will they even exist for this generation of tech?
- duaneb 14y ago
  I would imagine that there are converters to DVI/HDMI.... I hope?
  - AdamGibbins 14y ago
    You can't daisy chain pretend thunderbolt ports aka converters. So 1 monitor max.
  - mcrider 14y ago
    I believe the only way to get two displays working though is to pass the second display through the first display (via thunderbolt). AFAIK, there is no adapter to split thunderbolt into two DVI/VGA/HDMI cables. Though I hope I'm wrong, I'd buy that in a flash and wire up my second external display to my new air.
  - numo16 14y ago
    There are, no worries
  - bingbing 14y ago
    Monoprice has this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011409&p_id=8118&seq=1&format=2 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&c... It doesn't support chaining more thunderbolt devices, though.
    - veemjeem 14y ago
      All this does is split the video into 2 identical signals. Note their fine print: "the two outputs of this monitor will always be the same"
- jemka 14y ago
TomatoTomato 14y ago
Can the macbook pro retina handle 4 thunderbolt displays (2 on each port as with the Air) + HDMI?
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Negatory. The total volume of pixels the Mac can push is the limiter. As you add monitors, the Mac will eventually black out the laptop display and spend the pixels externally. Beyond that it'll simply refuse to light up the display it can't feed. Doesn't matter which port they're headed out of. Three sizeable displays appears to be the limit. Note: A Thunderbolt display can pass along enough signal for another Thunderbolt display. But not two extra on the chain. And for (presumably) dumb (presumably) Apple Reasons, a non-Thunderbolt display cannot be involved in that chain at all. tl;dr: give Apple all your money
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    probably not apple reasons since thunderbolt is really just intel's lightpeak spec. you probably can't chain a non-thunderbolt display at the end of the chain because the data packets are probably encoded with some device id, and if it doesn't match the current hardware, it would just forward it along the chain, so when these packets arrive at the non-lightpeak compliant display, it wouldn't be able to interpret it. tl;dr: normal displays don't read packet data
    - teilo 14y ago
      This is a limitation of Apple's Thunderbolt display, not Thunderbolt itself. Thunderbolt is designed to allow displayport at the end of a chain. For some reason, Apple chose not to support connecting a displayport adapter directly to a Thunderbolt display, but you can put a daisy-chained device in-between your Thunderbolt display and your displayport display, and it will work.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
That's why I pulled the trigger and bought mine yesterday.
bwh2 14y ago
I've been running two external displays for some time on my MBP. One mini display port, one USB. The USB has a mostly negligible lag.
- HalibetLector 14y ago
  I've been doing the same and the lag isn't the issue. The real problem is high CPU usage. I can only use the usb monitor for looking at text, anything more (like opening a webpage or watching a video in youtube) and the computer slows to a crawl (I'm using the first unibody macbook pro, pre-thunderbolt).

40 points by gaborcselle 14y ago

This is a pretty big deal for designers and developers who love dual-display setups, e.g. for looking at code and docs at the same time. Until now you had to lug around a 15" MacBook Pro to get dual external monitor support.

Ralith 14y ago
Or use something other than a MacBook. That's an option too.
- gaborcselle 14y ago
  The vast majority of developers I know use some version of the MacBook. (However, that could be the San Francisco / New York tech bubble that I live in.)
  - Ralith 14y ago
    Anecdotes are generally worse than meaningless. Still, in the spirit of things, I don't think I know a single MacBook user; sampling biases clearly exist. Tangentally: One is inclined to wonder, if dual display support is such a big deal, why they all use hardware incapable of it.
    - catch23 14y ago
      do your developer friends use linux laptops, or windows running linux vm?
  - fooyc 14y ago
    One MacBook to rule them all
  - flatline3 14y ago
    I don't understand the allure of the laptop for developers. For me, performance easily beats portability. I also have a laptop, but I'd never use it as a primary desktop.
    - 13rules 14y ago
      I run my own company and have a home office and a regular office, each with a mouse, keyboard, and big monitor. With my laptop I can just take it back and forth - all files come with me and the machine is in the exact state when I boot it up at home as when it was at the office. If I need to go out of town, I just take the laptop with me and I can do everything I would normally do, just with a smaller screen. At least for web development, speed usually isn't an issue ... putting in an SSD drive a year or so ago, though, was the best thing I did - very noticeable speed increase! So, for me it's a convenience factor.
- mkaltenecker 14y ago
  Are there ultrabooks with dual monitor support? It seems to me that the graphics hardware is the limit (and all ultrabooks use the same one).
  - Ralith 14y ago
    It's fallacious to assume that the majority, or even a sizable proportion of, developers use a portable device of any kind as their primary machine.
    - mkaltenecker 14y ago
      Sure, be the topic of the discussion were developers who do.
      - Ralith 14y ago
        What makes you think that? So far the groups of developers that have been called out are "Developers" and "Developers who love dual-display setups." I don't see anything about mobile devices except that gaborcselle seems to think [almost] everybody uses MacBooks, which is the point I'm questioning.
        mkaltenecker 14y ago
        I think it’s pretty clear from the context that developers who would like to use a MBA were meant.
- jinushaun 14y ago
  But then, instead of lugging around a heavy/bulky MBP, you're lugging around a heavy/bulky PC laptop. Problem not solved.
scott_meade 14y ago
Or use Plugable's UGA-2K-A USB to VGA/DVI/HDMI adapters for Multiple Monitors. I've been running three external 1920x1200's off my MacBook Air. http://twitpic.com/9yr3tr/full http://twitpic.com/9yr3tr/full Not Thunderbolt nor 2,560x1,440, yet multiple monitors nonetheless.
- swah 14y ago
  That's a lot of pixels with integrated graphics :) (IRRC). Don't you find the brightness from the 2nd/3rd displays causes eye strain?
  - rograndom 14y ago
    It's a USB video adapter if I'm reading the product page right http://plugable.com/products/uga-2k-a/ http://plugable.com/products/uga-2k-a/

Ralith 14y ago

Rather presumptuous to imply that developers in general care about MacBook design tweaks, isn't it?

rch 14y ago
The hyperbole didn't sit well with me either.
gaborcselle 14y ago
Yeah, the title may be a little exaggerated, but most developers I know (including myself) have some version of the MacBook.

cmelbye 14y ago

Wow, that looks amazing. Forgive my ignorance (I don't use external displays with my MBP), but how is this done? Does each display connect to the next display with Thunderbolt daisy chaining?

modarts 14y ago
Exactly, the thunderbolt displays have outputs that you can daisy chain with.
NickM 14y ago
The new MBP has two Thunderbolt ports and an HDMI output so I assume it's just using each output separately. Not sure about the Air though....

mikeevans 14y ago

Do the displays have to be Thunderbolt displays? Seems really expensive.

grecy 14y ago
I'm no expert, but I wonder if you could go: Air->Thunderbolt Dispaly->DVI Adapter->DVI display ? The way I see it, you can't daisy chain without having at least one thunderbolt display.
- jpxxx 14y ago
  Unfortunately no. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219#dispnum http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219#dispnum Thunderbolt only chains to Thunderbolt. But the port coming out of the Mac will gladly connect to one of anything.
  - teilo 14y ago
    Actually, yes you can, as long as your Mac supports multiple external displays. The only thing you can't do is plug a mini-displayport adapter directly into a Thunderbolt display. But, strangly, you can chain, say, a hard drive to a Thunderbolt display, and then plug the mini-displayport adapter into the hard drive, and that will work. http://www.macworld.com/article/1162365/first_look_apple_thunderbolt_display.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1162365/first_look_apple_thu...
jpxxx 14y ago
Negatory. The Thunderbolt port is really just passing through a DisplayPort signal - any DisplayPort monitor will do. Displayport degrades nicely into HDMI, DVI, or VGA with an adapter, so sky's pretty much the limit. The new MacBook Pro does also have a HDMI port which can do all the same.
- gaborcselle 14y ago
  I didn't know that. Since I have Cinema Display with DisplayPort, could I do MacBook Air > Thunderbolt > Cinema Display?

RossDM 14y ago

So where are the affordable Thunderbolt displays? Will they even exist for this generation of tech?

duaneb 14y ago
I would imagine that there are converters to DVI/HDMI.... I hope?
- AdamGibbins 14y ago
  You can't daisy chain pretend thunderbolt ports aka converters. So 1 monitor max.
- mcrider 14y ago
  I believe the only way to get two displays working though is to pass the second display through the first display (via thunderbolt). AFAIK, there is no adapter to split thunderbolt into two DVI/VGA/HDMI cables. Though I hope I'm wrong, I'd buy that in a flash and wire up my second external display to my new air.
- numo16 14y ago
  There are, no worries
- bingbing 14y ago
  Monoprice has this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011409&p_id=8118&seq=1&format=2 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&c... It doesn't support chaining more thunderbolt devices, though.
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    All this does is split the video into 2 identical signals. Note their fine print: "the two outputs of this monitor will always be the same"
jemka 14y ago

TomatoTomato 14y ago

Can the macbook pro retina handle 4 thunderbolt displays (2 on each port as with the Air) + HDMI?

jpxxx 14y ago
Negatory. The total volume of pixels the Mac can push is the limiter. As you add monitors, the Mac will eventually black out the laptop display and spend the pixels externally. Beyond that it'll simply refuse to light up the display it can't feed. Doesn't matter which port they're headed out of. Three sizeable displays appears to be the limit. Note: A Thunderbolt display can pass along enough signal for another Thunderbolt display. But not two extra on the chain. And for (presumably) dumb (presumably) Apple Reasons, a non-Thunderbolt display cannot be involved in that chain at all. tl;dr: give Apple all your money
- veemjeem 14y ago
  probably not apple reasons since thunderbolt is really just intel's lightpeak spec. you probably can't chain a non-thunderbolt display at the end of the chain because the data packets are probably encoded with some device id, and if it doesn't match the current hardware, it would just forward it along the chain, so when these packets arrive at the non-lightpeak compliant display, it wouldn't be able to interpret it. tl;dr: normal displays don't read packet data
  - teilo 14y ago
    This is a limitation of Apple's Thunderbolt display, not Thunderbolt itself. Thunderbolt is designed to allow displayport at the end of a chain. For some reason, Apple chose not to support connecting a displayport adapter directly to a Thunderbolt display, but you can put a daisy-chained device in-between your Thunderbolt display and your displayport display, and it will work.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

That's why I pulled the trigger and bought mine yesterday.

bwh2 14y ago

I've been running two external displays for some time on my MBP. One mini display port, one USB. The USB has a mostly negligible lag.

HalibetLector 14y ago
I've been doing the same and the lag isn't the issue. The real problem is high CPU usage. I can only use the usb monitor for looking at text, anything more (like opening a webpage or watching a video in youtube) and the computer slows to a crawl (I'm using the first unibody macbook pro, pre-thunderbolt).