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The entire time Bolsonaro was in power he was questioning the election system, doing parades and using public money to promote himself. His supporters openly a

The entire time Bolsonaro was in power he was questioning the election system, doing parades and using public money to promote himself. His supporters openly asked for military intervention in case he didn't win reelection, something Bolsonaro didn't try to defuse. In fact, when he lost, he just fled the country. When truck drivers threatened to stop the country indefinitely in an illegal movement he didn't try to tell them otherwise. When his supporters marched towards Brasília asking for military intervention, he didn't try to say nothing against that. Up until the point where soldiers arrived to contain the situation in Brasilia, because the police wasn't doing anything, being complacent with the situation, these invaders were thinking these soldiers were there to help them! They applauded these soldiers that were there to arrest them. None, not a single one of these facts were present in 2013 or 2016. And you are trying to tie these events together? Come on now.

matheusmoreira 2y ago
Literally none of the things you said amounts to a coup d'etat. Our countrymen begged on their knees for the military to intervene only to be arrested and placed in a concentration camp as political prisoners while their "hero" abandoned them like the cowardly rat he is. That's not a coup. A coup would have been the military actually intervening. A coup would have been those people showing in the capital with weapons and executing authorities then seizing power. You simply cannot convince me that a bunch of elderly folks with bibles and brazilian flags angrily protesting the election amounts to a coup d'etat.
- gchamonlive 2y ago
  > Our countrymen begged on their knees for the military to intervene only to be arrested and placed in a concentration camp as political prisoners while their "hero" abandoned them like the cowardly rat he is. Let me get this straight, you mean to say that Bolsonaro's mistake was not taking these protests far enough?
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    I mean to say I feel extremely sad for my countrymen who cared far too much about this cursed land and who ended up betrayed in literally every way. Betrayed by the military they put their faith in. Betrayed by the politician they believed in. Wouldn't be surprised if they still liked the guy despite it all. Whether it was a mistake or not, I dunno. I just don't fault him for trying whatever clumsy thing it is that he tried. I don't fault him because I don't believe this country is a democracy. I think it's a judiciary dictatorship. Watching those unelected judges say the word "democracy" actually makes me cringe.
    - gchamonlive 2y ago
      Our views from democracy and the current state of things is very different I don't know how to reconcile them. I don't think this is how democracy is done. You don't just bully yourself into power when there is a crisis, however long it is. And there isn't such a thing as a judiciary dictatorship, not when you have a conservative controlled and disproportionately empowered congress and an executive power without governability. What we have is a democratic crisis that must be solved through democratic means. Whatever distorted view of nationalism and the role of the military forces is just a smokescreen for partisans trying to seize power and failing. EDIT: I lay out in my blog a bit of what I think is the correct path in starting to defuse this democratic crisis we see worldwide at the individual level https://xd1.dev/2024/07/against-political-realism https://xd1.dev/2024/07/against-political-realism
      - matheusmoreira 2y ago
        > Our views from democracy and the current state of things is very different I don't know how to reconcile them. I don't know either. This is often my experience trying to discuss this. For what its worth I will read your blog and try to better understand your position. > You don't just bully yourself into power when there is a crisis, however long it is. Who are we supposed to turn to when the Surpeme Court grants itself limitless powers? Gives itself the right to be the victim, investigator, prosecutor and judge? Starts creatively interpreting and selectively applying the constitution of the nation? Basically doing whatever they want, backed by the fact their pens move armed police forces? It's the supreme court. There is no higher court you can appeal to. Is there anyone you can turn to? Anyone other than the military? Which is actually listed as the "moderating power" that's meant to intervene in exactly such extreme situations? I don't have a good answer to that. No one has has ever been able to give me the answer either. That's why I don't fault those folks for asking for military intervention. I don't believe there is a democratic solution to this because the supreme court is not actually a democratic institution to begin with. They are not elected by us, they are appointed by our representatives. Once in the supreme court, their mandates are lifetime. Short of suffering impeachment by the other politicians, they're basically untouchable. There is a 100% chance that the politicians who can impeach them are hopelessly corrupt though, I seriously doubt they're gonna screw around with judges who can put them in the ground.

matheusmoreira 2y ago

Literally none of the things you said amounts to a coup d'etat. Our countrymen begged on their knees for the military to intervene only to be arrested and placed in a concentration camp as political prisoners while their "hero" abandoned them like the cowardly rat he is. That's not a coup. A coup would have been the military actually intervening. A coup would have been those people showing in the capital with weapons and executing authorities then seizing power. You simply cannot convince me that a bunch of elderly folks with bibles and brazilian flags angrily protesting the election amounts to a coup d'etat.

gchamonlive 2y ago
> Our countrymen begged on their knees for the military to intervene only to be arrested and placed in a concentration camp as political prisoners while their "hero" abandoned them like the cowardly rat he is. Let me get this straight, you mean to say that Bolsonaro's mistake was not taking these protests far enough?
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  I mean to say I feel extremely sad for my countrymen who cared far too much about this cursed land and who ended up betrayed in literally every way. Betrayed by the military they put their faith in. Betrayed by the politician they believed in. Wouldn't be surprised if they still liked the guy despite it all. Whether it was a mistake or not, I dunno. I just don't fault him for trying whatever clumsy thing it is that he tried. I don't fault him because I don't believe this country is a democracy. I think it's a judiciary dictatorship. Watching those unelected judges say the word "democracy" actually makes me cringe.
  - gchamonlive 2y ago
    Our views from democracy and the current state of things is very different I don't know how to reconcile them. I don't think this is how democracy is done. You don't just bully yourself into power when there is a crisis, however long it is. And there isn't such a thing as a judiciary dictatorship, not when you have a conservative controlled and disproportionately empowered congress and an executive power without governability. What we have is a democratic crisis that must be solved through democratic means. Whatever distorted view of nationalism and the role of the military forces is just a smokescreen for partisans trying to seize power and failing. EDIT: I lay out in my blog a bit of what I think is the correct path in starting to defuse this democratic crisis we see worldwide at the individual level https://xd1.dev/2024/07/against-political-realism https://xd1.dev/2024/07/against-political-realism
    - matheusmoreira 2y ago
      > Our views from democracy and the current state of things is very different I don't know how to reconcile them. I don't know either. This is often my experience trying to discuss this. For what its worth I will read your blog and try to better understand your position. > You don't just bully yourself into power when there is a crisis, however long it is. Who are we supposed to turn to when the Surpeme Court grants itself limitless powers? Gives itself the right to be the victim, investigator, prosecutor and judge? Starts creatively interpreting and selectively applying the constitution of the nation? Basically doing whatever they want, backed by the fact their pens move armed police forces? It's the supreme court. There is no higher court you can appeal to. Is there anyone you can turn to? Anyone other than the military? Which is actually listed as the "moderating power" that's meant to intervene in exactly such extreme situations? I don't have a good answer to that. No one has has ever been able to give me the answer either. That's why I don't fault those folks for asking for military intervention. I don't believe there is a democratic solution to this because the supreme court is not actually a democratic institution to begin with. They are not elected by us, they are appointed by our representatives. Once in the supreme court, their mandates are lifetime. Short of suffering impeachment by the other politicians, they're basically untouchable. There is a 100% chance that the politicians who can impeach them are hopelessly corrupt though, I seriously doubt they're gonna screw around with judges who can put them in the ground.