4 ms·

It is kind of ridiculous though, every other rocket launched by any other company or country basically just blows up in the sea or the air. Penalizing SpaceX f

It is kind of ridiculous though, every other rocket launched by any other company or country basically just blows up in the sea or the air. Penalizing SpaceX for being the most successful company seems silly. Are they grounding other companies whose rockets cannot land at all?

firesteelrain 2y ago
First, take a deep breath. All other companies are investigated if this happens. It’s news because SpaceX launches so well and so often that it’s out of the norm.
- philwelch 2y ago
  It is simply not true that “all other companies” are investigated if their rockets fail to make a successful landing on a ship at sea. This is because no other company in the world has ever successfully landed a rocket on a ship at sea.
  - firesteelrain 2y ago
    You are incorrect. Everyone is subject to the same rules. See FAA Rule 450 Final: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/space/additional_information/faq/SLR2_Final_Rule_450.pdf https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/space/additional_inf... See 14 CFR Chapter III Subchapter C Part 417: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-III/subchapter-C/part-417 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-III/subchapter...
    - philwelch 2y ago
      So you’re telling me every rocket launch from the US prior to 2015 led to an investigation, as well as every rocket launch not performed by SpaceX since then?
      - firesteelrain 2y ago
        Yes, in part: "Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) data show that 50 commercial space launches from 2000 through mid-January 2023 resulted in “mishaps”—the industry term for incidents such as catastrophic explosions and other failures. This represents about 12 percent of 433 launches during the period and caused no fatalities, serious injuries, or significant property damage to the public." and "When mishaps occur, FAA can conduct an investigation itself or instead authorize launch operators to lead investigations of their own mishaps under FAA oversight, according to FAA. In practice, however, FAA has authorized operator-led investigations for all mishaps where it had lead investigative authority, GAO found." Source: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-105561 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-105561
        philwelch 2y ago
        Why are you deliberately being obtuse? Here, I’ll make it simple for you. On July 30, ULA launched USSF-51, an Atlas V mission in which the first stage did not successfully land on a drone ship, but rather was unceremoniously dumped in the Atlantic Ocean. Can you find me the investigation for that launch?
        firesteelrain 2y ago
        I am not understanding. Dumping in the Atlantic Ocean was part of their plan. The recent SpaceX landing failed. Landing was part of their overall flight plan.
        philwelch 2y ago
        For the past several years, SpaceX has attempted to recover their rockets in the ocean, with the well-understood risk that such a landing might fail, with the consequence of dumping the rocket into the ocean. SpaceX is currently the only orbital launch provider in the world with this capability. So on the rare occasion that this capability fails, SpaceX and SpaceX alone faces additional scrutiny over the otherwise completely acceptable consequence of the rocket getting dumped into the ocean. It would be one thing if every launch provider faced scrutiny for not recovering their rockets, but they don't. As a matter of public policy, it's obviously acceptable to dump rockets into the ocean. Every other launch provider gets away with it. The US government gets away with it. SpaceX is the only launch provider that doesn't get away with it; they are, in effect, being penalized for having a capability that other launch providers don't have and plainly serves the public interest. This may indeed be an unintended consequence of FAA regulations being inflexible about "plans", but it is a consequence nonetheless.

firesteelrain 2y ago

First, take a deep breath. All other companies are investigated if this happens. It’s news because SpaceX launches so well and so often that it’s out of the norm.

philwelch 2y ago
It is simply not true that “all other companies” are investigated if their rockets fail to make a successful landing on a ship at sea. This is because no other company in the world has ever successfully landed a rocket on a ship at sea.
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  You are incorrect. Everyone is subject to the same rules. See FAA Rule 450 Final: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/space/additional_information/faq/SLR2_Final_Rule_450.pdf https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/space/additional_inf... See 14 CFR Chapter III Subchapter C Part 417: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-III/subchapter-C/part-417 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-III/subchapter...
  - philwelch 2y ago
    So you’re telling me every rocket launch from the US prior to 2015 led to an investigation, as well as every rocket launch not performed by SpaceX since then?
    - firesteelrain 2y ago
      Yes, in part: "Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) data show that 50 commercial space launches from 2000 through mid-January 2023 resulted in “mishaps”—the industry term for incidents such as catastrophic explosions and other failures. This represents about 12 percent of 433 launches during the period and caused no fatalities, serious injuries, or significant property damage to the public." and "When mishaps occur, FAA can conduct an investigation itself or instead authorize launch operators to lead investigations of their own mishaps under FAA oversight, according to FAA. In practice, however, FAA has authorized operator-led investigations for all mishaps where it had lead investigative authority, GAO found." Source: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-105561 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-105561
      - philwelch 2y ago
        Why are you deliberately being obtuse? Here, I’ll make it simple for you. On July 30, ULA launched USSF-51, an Atlas V mission in which the first stage did not successfully land on a drone ship, but rather was unceremoniously dumped in the Atlantic Ocean. Can you find me the investigation for that launch?
        firesteelrain 2y ago
        I am not understanding. Dumping in the Atlantic Ocean was part of their plan. The recent SpaceX landing failed. Landing was part of their overall flight plan.
        philwelch 2y ago
        For the past several years, SpaceX has attempted to recover their rockets in the ocean, with the well-understood risk that such a landing might fail, with the consequence of dumping the rocket into the ocean. SpaceX is currently the only orbital launch provider in the world with this capability. So on the rare occasion that this capability fails, SpaceX and SpaceX alone faces additional scrutiny over the otherwise completely acceptable consequence of the rocket getting dumped into the ocean. It would be one thing if every launch provider faced scrutiny for not recovering their rockets, but they don't. As a matter of public policy, it's obviously acceptable to dump rockets into the ocean. Every other launch provider gets away with it. The US government gets away with it. SpaceX is the only launch provider that doesn't get away with it; they are, in effect, being penalized for having a capability that other launch providers don't have and plainly serves the public interest. This may indeed be an unintended consequence of FAA regulations being inflexible about "plans", but it is a consequence nonetheless.