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To make things even stranger, Durov was apparently invited to lunch by Macron. Instead of a presidential welcome, he was arrested on arrival. Source: https://x

To make things even stranger, Durov was apparently invited to lunch by Macron. Instead of a presidential welcome, he was arrested on arrival. Source: https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1828529272539304278 https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1828529272539304278

emptysongglass 2y ago
I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter. The European Union has been angling for more comprehensive access to messaging platforms with proposal after proposal. Everyone here loves to sing the praises of the EU but broad regulatory powers is not a clear cut value proposition: European governments and those governed have a long history of oppression. What's more, many of the broad regulatory powers have been used successfully by despotic regimes like China as cudgels not only to break apart monopolies (good) but to demand unfettered access to data (bad). These accusations made by the French government of conspiracy on one individual and alleged invitations by a head of state to entrap should be chilling to anyone observing. It reminds me of what happened to Jack Ma, when Ant threatened the CPC's interests. If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message. That message should be terrifying to anyone who values a free society.
- simion314 2y ago
  The CEO can run away and refuse to collaborate with the investigation or refuse to appear in court to defend his crimes, creating a company to get fa immunity from your crimes is not a thing that works. I read that the guy is free now but he is not allowed to leave France.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  And by this point, platforms also have a decently long history of being evil (and Telegram seems to have a mixed history in trying to combat this natural tendency), so why wouldn't we ?
- 3np 2y ago
  Related for context: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12309-a_year_of_surveillance_in_france_a_short_satirical_tale_by_la_quadrature_du_net https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12309-a_year_of_surveillance_in_...
- EricE 2y ago
  It's amazing how many seem to enjoy the taste of shoe leather, isn't it?
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  > I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter. I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend Telegram like if it was an open attack of free speach and not justified by Telegram completes lack of cooperation in crime investigations. >If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message. Yes, it sends the message that executives are actually responsible for what their company does. That's a good message.
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    Yes, it does send a message. But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone. Simply, proper law first established and in place and then due and proper process followed. Acting opportunistically without warning and or out of vengefulness or malice brings Justice into ill-repute. Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets. The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories, not only has it not done that but French leaders actually use the program. Such hypocrisy is mind-blowing. Whatever happened to Liberté, égalité, fraternité?
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      > But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone. Rules are and were always very clear. That's called the law. I don't understand why people here are acting like if there somehow was something surprising in Durov arrest. > Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets. There is no entrapment here. Entrapment is illegal in France. Durov was arrested as part of an investigation on Telegram practices. Law inforcement was not in anyway part of Telegarm not respecting the law. > The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories The issue is not about Telegram as an application which is and remains perfectly legal. The issue is with Telegram as a company which is not helping in criminal investigations. Why should France ban a legal application?
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  Wait, I thought we were for accountability and people not being able to hide behind their companies. Which one is it?
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago
  [dead]
yorwba 2y ago
Non-copypasta source: https://x.com/canardenchaine/status/1828438807697408059 https://x.com/canardenchaine/status/1828438807697408059 (When Zlatti_71 signs off with "Remylind23" and can't spell the name of the French newspaper they're attributing, doesn't that make you a bit suspicious? And Le Canard enchaîné is a satirical newspaper, so it's not inconceivable that the story is made-up.)
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
  It has a sarcastic tone but it is one of the best newspaper for the sources. Other newspapers regularly cite them.
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    The question is whether that statement is a joke or not (they do both).
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      No, they don't do joke articles. It's not the Onion. That wouldn't be called satirical in France anyway. It's satirical in the sense that it takes a mocking tone. It doesn't do parody.
      - BlueTemplar 2y ago
        Who said anything about articles only ? For instance, this one is obviously a parody : https://francois-pelletant.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Le-canard-enchain%C3%A9-18-aout.jpg https://francois-pelletant.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...
        RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        That's a political cartoon. How is it in any way relevant to the news published in the journal?

emptysongglass 2y ago

I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter. The European Union has been angling for more comprehensive access to messaging platforms with proposal after proposal. Everyone here loves to sing the praises of the EU but broad regulatory powers is not a clear cut value proposition: European governments and those governed have a long history of oppression. What's more, many of the broad regulatory powers have been used successfully by despotic regimes like China as cudgels not only to break apart monopolies (good) but to demand unfettered access to data (bad). These accusations made by the French government of conspiracy on one individual and alleged invitations by a head of state to entrap should be chilling to anyone observing. It reminds me of what happened to Jack Ma, when Ant threatened the CPC's interests. If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message. That message should be terrifying to anyone who values a free society.

simion314 2y ago
The CEO can run away and refuse to collaborate with the investigation or refuse to appear in court to defend his crimes, creating a company to get fa immunity from your crimes is not a thing that works. I read that the guy is free now but he is not allowed to leave France.
BlueTemplar 2y ago
And by this point, platforms also have a decently long history of being evil (and Telegram seems to have a mixed history in trying to combat this natural tendency), so why wouldn't we ?
3np 2y ago
Related for context: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12309-a_year_of_surveillance_in_france_a_short_satirical_tale_by_la_quadrature_du_net https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12309-a_year_of_surveillance_in_...
EricE 2y ago
It's amazing how many seem to enjoy the taste of shoe leather, isn't it?
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
> I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend the French government on this matter. I find it deeply uncomfortable that the HN contingent is rushing to defend Telegram like if it was an open attack of free speach and not justified by Telegram completes lack of cooperation in crime investigations. >If Telegram really was not answering enforcement requests in a timely manner, then France should have moved against the company either through a direct ban on the app itself or other court action. Putting its CEO in prison sends a message. Yes, it sends the message that executives are actually responsible for what their company does. That's a good message.
- hilbert42 2y ago
  Yes, it does send a message. But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone. Simply, proper law first established and in place and then due and proper process followed. Acting opportunistically without warning and or out of vengefulness or malice brings Justice into ill-repute. Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets. The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories, not only has it not done that but French leaders actually use the program. Such hypocrisy is mind-blowing. Whatever happened to Liberté, égalité, fraternité?
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    > But it should only have been done after rules have been set and are clear to everyone. Rules are and were always very clear. That's called the law. I don't understand why people here are acting like if there somehow was something surprising in Durov arrest. > Like entrapment, this is action is about as low and debased as it gets. There is no entrapment here. Entrapment is illegal in France. Durov was arrested as part of an investigation on Telegram practices. Law inforcement was not in anyway part of Telegarm not respecting the law. > The French Government could have banned Telegram across French territories The issue is not about Telegram as an application which is and remains perfectly legal. The issue is with Telegram as a company which is not helping in criminal investigations. Why should France ban a legal application?
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
Wait, I thought we were for accountability and people not being able to hide behind their companies. Which one is it?
onetokeoverthe 2y ago
[dead]

yorwba 2y ago

Non-copypasta source: https://x.com/canardenchaine/status/1828438807697408059 https://x.com/canardenchaine/status/1828438807697408059 (When Zlatti_71 signs off with "Remylind23" and can't spell the name of the French newspaper they're attributing, doesn't that make you a bit suspicious? And Le Canard enchaîné is a satirical newspaper, so it's not inconceivable that the story is made-up.)

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
It has a sarcastic tone but it is one of the best newspaper for the sources. Other newspapers regularly cite them.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  The question is whether that statement is a joke or not (they do both).
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    No, they don't do joke articles. It's not the Onion. That wouldn't be called satirical in France anyway. It's satirical in the sense that it takes a mocking tone. It doesn't do parody.
    - BlueTemplar 2y ago
      Who said anything about articles only ? For instance, this one is obviously a parody : https://francois-pelletant.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Le-canard-enchain%C3%A9-18-aout.jpg https://francois-pelletant.fr/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...
      - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        That's a political cartoon. How is it in any way relevant to the news published in the journal?