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The great thing about Australia is that that is probably illegal here. We've got some pretty fucked up protectionist rules about what you can and can't do in/t

by Nursie 2y ago

The great thing about Australia is that that is probably illegal here. We've got some pretty fucked up protectionist rules about what you can and can't do in/to your own home. It's nuts. Now, nobody is actually watching most of the time, so you're usually fine, but it's as stupid as being illegal to replace a tap or existing light fitting. Every so often state governments review the rules and get swamped by trade associations who say the rules are there to prevent people being 'scammed' by untrained 'handymen' and are there for your own protection. This regulatory capture means that legally you need to complete a four year apprenticeship before you're allowed to change a plug! And another one if you want to do any basic water plumbing. I wouldn't be surprised if what the guy did in this blog is strictly speaking illegal - for instance when it comes to data cables, you need to be a qualified electrician with data specialty to install them. You can plug ethernet cables into your computers yourself (wow! such privilege!), but if you install them even by getting some stick-on plastic conduit and passing the cable through that, you're in contravention and could potentially be fined, up to thousands of dollars. For sticking some plastic tubes to the wall in your own house.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
Reminds me how, in USA, it’s the only civilized nation I’ve been to where you must have a prescription to purchase contacts and glasses. Everywhere else I’ve been will just sell you whatever magnification you need at the pharmacy. Obviously there is some acceptable line here, but I think the States handles this decently well enough. In Austin where I live you can get what is called a “homeowners permit” in a lot of cases. Meaning the city will come look at your work and as long as it’s up to code you get a legal permit just like a contractor would get (https://www.austintexas.gov/page/homeowners-permit https://www.austintexas.gov/page/homeowners-permit). You can only do this to your own home so it’s not a shortcut to running a chuck in a truck business without a license.
- Nursie 2y ago
  Yeah in the UK where I spent most of my life, it seems like you do whatever you want, pretty much. Golden rule - you don't touch gas plumbing. And you don't mess with your circuit breaker board/RCDs etc. I think installing new ring circuits may be off limits. Anything else? Go for it. I fitted a bunch of taps and a toilet, changed single sockets to double+USB sockets, changed light fittings, fixed poorly wired lighting circuits, installed Cat-6 through the walls to a few rooms, all sorts of stuff. And none of it was anyone else's business. You can (should?) get a professional inspection and safety certificate before you sell the house, but that's about it AFAICT. I'd be happy enough with the situation in Austin, so long as the city inspections were cheap or free. I'd be happy enough to do a short course in the basics before getting some sort of permit. Where we are now is nuts. (But at least I can buy a pair of generic reading glasses pretty much wherever here!)
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    The inspections themselves here are reasonably priced, but it’s still annoying to deal with the city because they operate in 1995. There’s no portal for scheduling inspections for homeowners, you have to call them. They don’t tell you when they will show up on the day they will perform them, so you have to be available at home from 7-17 ready to instantly answer the door at a moments notice the second they knock or you will miss them and have to reschedule The pricing is reasonable enough - it’s cheap enough to actually be worthwhile to do several things yourself that normally you’d have to pay a contractor for. I did it when I ran some electrical conduit to my garage to add a few 120V receptacles in there. My general rule of thumb is also I won’t touch gas. But also anything like plumbing that is INSIDE walls I usually am looking to have a professional handle as well. It’s harder to fix knucklehead DIY mistakes when they are covered up behind drywall. It does make me want more plumbing setups like I’ve seen in Europe. When I lived in Sweden I loved for instance that a lot of bathroom plumbing is completely exposed, so DIY’ing plumbing work is actually pretty accessible. Here where you have to dig into the walls to get at it makes it much less appealing since not only do you have to be a a decent plumber you also have to be a decent drywall person as well.
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Watching "Scrapheap Challenge" has taught me the UK has a lot of regulations about steam engines. One of the behind-the-scene videos was something like "that old steam-powered whatever they just happened to find in the scrapheap? Yeah, we've got the inspection certificate right here." Boiler explosions will do that to a country.
- happyopossum 2y ago
  > Reminds me how, in USA, it’s the only civilized nation I’ve been to where you must have a prescription to purchase contacts and glasses Anecdotally this is far from true. Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, and the UK for example require a prescription for anything more complicated than reading glasses. There are plenty of reasons why, mostly summed up by your comment about “whatever magnification you need” - eyeglasses for distance vision are infinitely more complex than “magnification” and if you’re buying anything other than reading glasses without a proper exam and matched lenses, you’re doing yourself harm. Unless of course you are talking about reading glasses, in which case you’re also wrong, as you can get those for a couple of bucks pretty much anywhere in the US with no prescription.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    I am not sure about Canadas situation since that is where I used to order my contacts from before I got LASIK several years ago. I don’t recall having to provide a script then. But Mexico and several other European countries I’ve been to (Sweden as an example) it’s absolutely the case you can just walk into the pharmacy and grab the magnification you need with no prescription. I am actually surprised you were able to provide that many counter examples but I’ve never tried to buy contacts in the countries you’ve listed outside of Canada
    - labcomputer 2y ago
      > it’s absolutely the case you can just walk into the pharmacy and grab the magnification you need with no prescription. I don’t understand how this could possibly work. Contact lenses have at least three parameters to define the lens. It’s not just “magnification”. If you have an astigmatism, there are two more, and a further two if you have presbyopia (for a total of up to 7). Almost everyone has presbyopia by the age of 65, so it’s not some rare condition. Do these pharmacies you speak of just have aisles upon aisles of contact lenses?
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        When I was in Germany, I saw vending machines where you could buy contacts. Sure, there's a lot of possible values, but they probably only stock the most popular ones. Here in Japan, you can easily buy contacts from optical stores. They have several shelves behind the counters where they stock many varieties. Sometimes they even put a bunch of unsold/unpopular ones out front for 1/2 off (a lot of these are color contacts). I get mine online; I don't need a prescription. One thing I did notice, as someone with astigmatism, is that the number of possible values is less here. My axis back in the US was 100, but here I have to use 90; they just don't carry them in all the possible axis values here.
- hunter2_ 2y ago
  There's an easy hack for the contact lens (and maybe glasses?) situation. There is a consumer protection law meant to ensure eye doctors can't stop you from using any retailer you want (otherwise they'd essentially make themselves your retailer), and it works like this: You place an order with the retailer (online retailers typically allow you to simply type in your prescription values when adding lenses to your online cart; you don't need to show an official written prescription) and specify your doctor's name and phone number. Upon receiving your order, the retailer must call the doctor to see whether the doctor objects (invalid prescription). The retailer is to ship the order only if there is no objection (including no response at all) within 8 business hours. So just give the retailer the name and number of someone who won't immediately object, which is quite easy (e.g. a permanently closed office). Of course, you need a refraction to know your prescription values. But once that's done, if your vision doesn't change over time, this allows you to ignore the expiration date of the prescription.
  - Xcelerate 2y ago
    Oh wow... I'm totally going to try this next time just to see if it works
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    Yeah my beef isn’t around the actual requirement of determining your prescription. Obviously you should wear eyeglasses/contacts that match your vision requirements. I think this is especially relevant when we are talking about usage with a drivers license. The ridiculous part is the arbitrary 1 year renewal. As you imply it is really only necessary to recheck that often when your vision is changing a lot which is usually not something that happens after some period in your 20’s. Neat trick though. I got lasik a few years ago but I would do this if I hadnt
  - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
    This sounds too good to be true. Having to get a prescription to get contacts is insane…
    - labcomputer 2y ago
- userbinator 2y ago
  In the US, it's probably more of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation most of the time. Only the idiots get caught when they screw up.
- aledalgrande 2y ago
  Canada enters the room
jamil7 2y ago
Australia is definitely one of the most rule-obsessed countries, even in comparison to Germany, where I’ve lived for the last decade or so. Parts of my parent’s house back home are heritage listed, some rules make sense and some are bizarre, especially regarding the garden.
- XorNot 2y ago
  Heritage listing is it's own thing. What I hate is the rules surrounding...essentially any home services. Like it took me a long time to realize when people in the US were saying they "needed to get something up to code" what they meant was, that they themselves didn't feel up to doing the work and it would cost them. But like...you can. You can just call the guys and double-check what needs to be done and do it yourself and get it inspected. Whereas in Australia the answer is, it's all illegal, and if you're not a licensed whoever then they don't want to tell you how it should be done in case gasp you do it yourself. So of course everyone does do it themselves, and lies about it. And the quality of workmanship from the trades is...poor.
  - Nursie 2y ago
    Yeah it's not like the work done by the trades is always a shining example of competence. I can and often do do a better job on things myself, because I have more time and I care about getting it right. And with the apparent trade shortage (at least in part caused by how much you need them for real basic shit), it's expensive and half the time the bastards won't answer the phone or don't show up to appointments. So stuff gets done on the down-low or it just doesn't get done at all. Gotta love the signs at the hardware store saying "You can buy this stuff but if you even think about installing it yourself, that's illegal!"
- marcus_holmes 2y ago
  I moved back to Perth from Berlin last year, and yeah, agree completely. Germans have a reputation for being rule-obsessed but they're lax compared to the Aussies, who have a reputation for being larrikins that is almost completely undeserved. It's all "beer & bbq on the beach" until you find out that's illegal and the police will pour out your beer on the sand and fine you for the bbq.

by Nursie 2y ago

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago

Reminds me how, in USA, it’s the only civilized nation I’ve been to where you must have a prescription to purchase contacts and glasses. Everywhere else I’ve been will just sell you whatever magnification you need at the pharmacy. Obviously there is some acceptable line here, but I think the States handles this decently well enough. In Austin where I live you can get what is called a “homeowners permit” in a lot of cases. Meaning the city will come look at your work and as long as it’s up to code you get a legal permit just like a contractor would get (https://www.austintexas.gov/page/homeowners-permit https://www.austintexas.gov/page/homeowners-permit). You can only do this to your own home so it’s not a shortcut to running a chuck in a truck business without a license.

Nursie 2y ago
Yeah in the UK where I spent most of my life, it seems like you do whatever you want, pretty much. Golden rule - you don't touch gas plumbing. And you don't mess with your circuit breaker board/RCDs etc. I think installing new ring circuits may be off limits. Anything else? Go for it. I fitted a bunch of taps and a toilet, changed single sockets to double+USB sockets, changed light fittings, fixed poorly wired lighting circuits, installed Cat-6 through the walls to a few rooms, all sorts of stuff. And none of it was anyone else's business. You can (should?) get a professional inspection and safety certificate before you sell the house, but that's about it AFAICT. I'd be happy enough with the situation in Austin, so long as the city inspections were cheap or free. I'd be happy enough to do a short course in the basics before getting some sort of permit. Where we are now is nuts. (But at least I can buy a pair of generic reading glasses pretty much wherever here!)
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  The inspections themselves here are reasonably priced, but it’s still annoying to deal with the city because they operate in 1995. There’s no portal for scheduling inspections for homeowners, you have to call them. They don’t tell you when they will show up on the day they will perform them, so you have to be available at home from 7-17 ready to instantly answer the door at a moments notice the second they knock or you will miss them and have to reschedule The pricing is reasonable enough - it’s cheap enough to actually be worthwhile to do several things yourself that normally you’d have to pay a contractor for. I did it when I ran some electrical conduit to my garage to add a few 120V receptacles in there. My general rule of thumb is also I won’t touch gas. But also anything like plumbing that is INSIDE walls I usually am looking to have a professional handle as well. It’s harder to fix knucklehead DIY mistakes when they are covered up behind drywall. It does make me want more plumbing setups like I’ve seen in Europe. When I lived in Sweden I loved for instance that a lot of bathroom plumbing is completely exposed, so DIY’ing plumbing work is actually pretty accessible. Here where you have to dig into the walls to get at it makes it much less appealing since not only do you have to be a a decent plumber you also have to be a decent drywall person as well.
- eesmith 2y ago
  Watching "Scrapheap Challenge" has taught me the UK has a lot of regulations about steam engines. One of the behind-the-scene videos was something like "that old steam-powered whatever they just happened to find in the scrapheap? Yeah, we've got the inspection certificate right here." Boiler explosions will do that to a country.
happyopossum 2y ago
> Reminds me how, in USA, it’s the only civilized nation I’ve been to where you must have a prescription to purchase contacts and glasses Anecdotally this is far from true. Canada, Australia, the Netherlands, and the UK for example require a prescription for anything more complicated than reading glasses. There are plenty of reasons why, mostly summed up by your comment about “whatever magnification you need” - eyeglasses for distance vision are infinitely more complex than “magnification” and if you’re buying anything other than reading glasses without a proper exam and matched lenses, you’re doing yourself harm. Unless of course you are talking about reading glasses, in which case you’re also wrong, as you can get those for a couple of bucks pretty much anywhere in the US with no prescription.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  I am not sure about Canadas situation since that is where I used to order my contacts from before I got LASIK several years ago. I don’t recall having to provide a script then. But Mexico and several other European countries I’ve been to (Sweden as an example) it’s absolutely the case you can just walk into the pharmacy and grab the magnification you need with no prescription. I am actually surprised you were able to provide that many counter examples but I’ve never tried to buy contacts in the countries you’ve listed outside of Canada
  - labcomputer 2y ago
    > it’s absolutely the case you can just walk into the pharmacy and grab the magnification you need with no prescription. I don’t understand how this could possibly work. Contact lenses have at least three parameters to define the lens. It’s not just “magnification”. If you have an astigmatism, there are two more, and a further two if you have presbyopia (for a total of up to 7). Almost everyone has presbyopia by the age of 65, so it’s not some rare condition. Do these pharmacies you speak of just have aisles upon aisles of contact lenses?
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      When I was in Germany, I saw vending machines where you could buy contacts. Sure, there's a lot of possible values, but they probably only stock the most popular ones. Here in Japan, you can easily buy contacts from optical stores. They have several shelves behind the counters where they stock many varieties. Sometimes they even put a bunch of unsold/unpopular ones out front for 1/2 off (a lot of these are color contacts). I get mine online; I don't need a prescription. One thing I did notice, as someone with astigmatism, is that the number of possible values is less here. My axis back in the US was 100, but here I have to use 90; they just don't carry them in all the possible axis values here.
hunter2_ 2y ago
There's an easy hack for the contact lens (and maybe glasses?) situation. There is a consumer protection law meant to ensure eye doctors can't stop you from using any retailer you want (otherwise they'd essentially make themselves your retailer), and it works like this: You place an order with the retailer (online retailers typically allow you to simply type in your prescription values when adding lenses to your online cart; you don't need to show an official written prescription) and specify your doctor's name and phone number. Upon receiving your order, the retailer must call the doctor to see whether the doctor objects (invalid prescription). The retailer is to ship the order only if there is no objection (including no response at all) within 8 business hours. So just give the retailer the name and number of someone who won't immediately object, which is quite easy (e.g. a permanently closed office). Of course, you need a refraction to know your prescription values. But once that's done, if your vision doesn't change over time, this allows you to ignore the expiration date of the prescription.
- Xcelerate 2y ago
  Oh wow... I'm totally going to try this next time just to see if it works
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Yeah my beef isn’t around the actual requirement of determining your prescription. Obviously you should wear eyeglasses/contacts that match your vision requirements. I think this is especially relevant when we are talking about usage with a drivers license. The ridiculous part is the arbitrary 1 year renewal. As you imply it is really only necessary to recheck that often when your vision is changing a lot which is usually not something that happens after some period in your 20’s. Neat trick though. I got lasik a few years ago but I would do this if I hadnt
- cruffle_duffle 2y ago
  This sounds too good to be true. Having to get a prescription to get contacts is insane…
  - labcomputer 2y ago
userbinator 2y ago
In the US, it's probably more of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation most of the time. Only the idiots get caught when they screw up.
aledalgrande 2y ago
Canada enters the room

jamil7 2y ago

Australia is definitely one of the most rule-obsessed countries, even in comparison to Germany, where I’ve lived for the last decade or so. Parts of my parent’s house back home are heritage listed, some rules make sense and some are bizarre, especially regarding the garden.

XorNot 2y ago
Heritage listing is it's own thing. What I hate is the rules surrounding...essentially any home services. Like it took me a long time to realize when people in the US were saying they "needed to get something up to code" what they meant was, that they themselves didn't feel up to doing the work and it would cost them. But like...you can. You can just call the guys and double-check what needs to be done and do it yourself and get it inspected. Whereas in Australia the answer is, it's all illegal, and if you're not a licensed whoever then they don't want to tell you how it should be done in case gasp you do it yourself. So of course everyone does do it themselves, and lies about it. And the quality of workmanship from the trades is...poor.
- Nursie 2y ago
  Yeah it's not like the work done by the trades is always a shining example of competence. I can and often do do a better job on things myself, because I have more time and I care about getting it right. And with the apparent trade shortage (at least in part caused by how much you need them for real basic shit), it's expensive and half the time the bastards won't answer the phone or don't show up to appointments. So stuff gets done on the down-low or it just doesn't get done at all. Gotta love the signs at the hardware store saying "You can buy this stuff but if you even think about installing it yourself, that's illegal!"
marcus_holmes 2y ago
I moved back to Perth from Berlin last year, and yeah, agree completely. Germans have a reputation for being rule-obsessed but they're lax compared to the Aussies, who have a reputation for being larrikins that is almost completely undeserved. It's all "beer & bbq on the beach" until you find out that's illegal and the police will pour out your beer on the sand and fine you for the bbq.