3 ms·

> Toxic empathy Do not forget that NYC charges a substantial income tax, and also a substantial sales tax. As such, the empathy is 100% justifiable.

rayiner 2y ago
So do Sweden and Denmark, and they have bus fare on top of that. NYC uses that to subsidize 80% of the bus system and imposes user fees for the rest. The people who evade the fare are anti-social, and it’s toxic and ultimately detrimental to the goal of functional, widely used public transit to empathize with anti-social people. Even in my home country of Bangladesh, which is extremely poor and dysfunctionally anti-social, I would guess fare evasion isn’t as high as in NYC (including the people riding on top of the bus).
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  > NYC uses that to subsidize 80% of the bus system Don't kid yourself. No one is going to pay 5x to ride the bus. It doesn't cost that much to offer a local bus ride. I don't think you realize where the money really goes. It goes to pay huge pensions, not to benefit the rider.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  Agreed, a lot of this 'empathy' is largely naivete, 48% of New Yorkers aren't so poor as to be unable to pay for the bus. Most of them are anti-social or lacking in a sense of duty towards the commons, making the fare free would not make them suddenly feel a sense of duty, they'd just become even more brazen in abusing the infrastructure.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    Those who make $16*8 = $128/day before taxes, and <$100 after taxes, most definitely cannot afford to pay $5.80/day on the stupid bus fare, nor should they have to. They're getting a raw deal as it is for their labor.
    - pclmulqdq 2y ago
      Anyone making that little doesn't pay net taxes. The EITC, federal benefits, and state and city benefits all pile up on the other side.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        > Anyone making that little doesn't pay net taxes. The IRS certainly taxes an annual income of ~$30k, basically anything above $11k. Any benefits require jumping through a lot of hoops. Moreover, like everyone else, they also have to pay a sales tax for every non-food item they buy. There is also a property tax that they're indirectly responsible for if they're renting. When choosing between rent and bus fare, the choice is obvious.

rayiner 2y ago

So do Sweden and Denmark, and they have bus fare on top of that. NYC uses that to subsidize 80% of the bus system and imposes user fees for the rest. The people who evade the fare are anti-social, and it’s toxic and ultimately detrimental to the goal of functional, widely used public transit to empathize with anti-social people. Even in my home country of Bangladesh, which is extremely poor and dysfunctionally anti-social, I would guess fare evasion isn’t as high as in NYC (including the people riding on top of the bus).

OutOfHere 2y ago
> NYC uses that to subsidize 80% of the bus system Don't kid yourself. No one is going to pay 5x to ride the bus. It doesn't cost that much to offer a local bus ride. I don't think you realize where the money really goes. It goes to pay huge pensions, not to benefit the rider.
dotnet00 2y ago
Agreed, a lot of this 'empathy' is largely naivete, 48% of New Yorkers aren't so poor as to be unable to pay for the bus. Most of them are anti-social or lacking in a sense of duty towards the commons, making the fare free would not make them suddenly feel a sense of duty, they'd just become even more brazen in abusing the infrastructure.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  Those who make $16*8 = $128/day before taxes, and <$100 after taxes, most definitely cannot afford to pay $5.80/day on the stupid bus fare, nor should they have to. They're getting a raw deal as it is for their labor.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    Anyone making that little doesn't pay net taxes. The EITC, federal benefits, and state and city benefits all pile up on the other side.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      > Anyone making that little doesn't pay net taxes. The IRS certainly taxes an annual income of ~$30k, basically anything above $11k. Any benefits require jumping through a lot of hoops. Moreover, like everyone else, they also have to pay a sales tax for every non-food item they buy. There is also a property tax that they're indirectly responsible for if they're renting. When choosing between rent and bus fare, the choice is obvious.