8 ms·

> when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. Every time Zune has been b

> when they've repeatedly proven it's a disastrous strategy (see: Zune). That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. Every time Zune has been brought up for discussion here, I've seen primarily two types of responses... From people that actually owned a Zune: Fantastic product (better than my Apple iPod). From people that never owned or tried a Zune: It's absolute crap (I've never seen any of my iPod friends with one). The iPod users verbal diarrhea was so thick, that MS's marketing department couldn't cut through it. One iPod user would regurgitate it down another's mouth, and soon everyone had fed on the same crap. Watching their "network effect" was kind of impressive.

e03179 14y ago
Agree. The Zune Pass worked great for me ($10/mo) to listen to all the music in their library on multiple devices and computers. I've said for a while that if Apple released a subscription-based iTunes that a lot of people would use it...perhaps even rave about it. And then Spotify came along which replaced my Zune Pass membership.
michaelbuckbee 14y ago
I played around (and rather liked the Zune) when it came out, but as with many of the devices discussed here it is more about the ecosystem than the device. I was very put off by moves that Microsoft had made with Plays4Sure[1] (oh the irony) and worried that they would do similar with Zune Marketplace. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure
Apple-Guy 14y ago
Microsoft's failures extend way far beyond the Zune: http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-device-failures/ http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-de...
- barista 14y ago
  Every company has failures and successes. For every a zune there is also xbox, Kinect and PC periferals. For iPad there are Apple TVs and Newtons, etc. What's the point?
  - mrdodge 14y ago
    Xbox is a failure by almost every financial metric. Microsoft is not anywhere near recouping the initial costs. The entertainment/devices division is rarely profitable and last quarter lost over $200 million.
    - WrkInProgress 14y ago
      And the quarter before that ... the entertainment & devices division made $528 million. Here are the last six quarters prior to Q3 2012, all profitable http://betanews.com/2011/10/20/microsoft-q1-2012-by-the-numbers-17-37b-revenue-5-7-billion-profit/ http://betanews.com/2011/10/20/microsoft-q1-2012-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/07/21/microsoft-q4-2011-by-the-numbers-17-37b-revenue-5-87b-profit-69-cents-eps/ http://betanews.com/2011/07/21/microsoft-q4-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/04/28/microsoft-q3-2011-by-the-numbers-record-16-43b-windows-revenue-declines/ http://betanews.com/2011/04/28/microsoft-q3-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/01/27/microsoft-q2-2011-by-the-numbers-record-19-95b-revenue-77-cents-eps/ http://betanews.com/2011/01/27/microsoft-q2-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2010/10/28/microsoft-q1-2011-by-the-numbers-beats-consensus-but-not-apple/ http://betanews.com/2010/10/28/microsoft-q1-2011-by-the-numb...
      - SigmundA 14y ago
        And yet the Xbox still hasn't recouped it's losses total. A few profitable quarters does not make up for years of losses. Here are some charts for you to make it painfully clear which divisions are profitable and keep MS running: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-lo... http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-profit-by-division-2011-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-pr...
csmeder 14y ago
I was given a Zune. It was well made and easy to navigate, much better than the Archos I bought before I bought my iPod. If the Zune had been released before the iPod, it would have been an impressive piece of hardware. A great product! However it wasn't. I tried really hard to enjoy my Zune. It felt like a waste just to throw it away. The problem was that it was almost as good as my iPod. Releasing a product that is almost as good as a product that came out 3 years earlier doesn't work. If you are going to release 3 years late, you have to be better. I agree with the above comment, Microsoft will fail it tries to beat apple where it is strong. Microsoft either needs to find a "Steve Jobs" who can drastically change its company culture or stop tying to compete with apple on consumer products. Note: I am being generous when I say it was almost as good. It had downsides. In particular the companion software to load up music was a bad experience. My guess is that when people say they loved their Zune, its because they wanted to love it. If you gave the same person an iPod (and they were being impartial) my guess is they would choose the iPod. However, I don't think its likely these Zune owners were impartial. It would not be a big surprise if most people who bought and defend the Zune are Microsoft Zealots that want to find reasons to prove Microsoft is great and Apple is bad.
- Jare 14y ago
  I can't believe you just complained about the Zune software in a comparison with Apple's stuff. iTunes is the most amazing piece of garbage I've ever been forced to use for so long. I bought an iPod in 2005, it was a nice piece of gear for sure, but for some random reason I ended up buying a Zune in 2007, and the iPod never saw the light again until I managed to break the Zune. The main reason for that is I never wanted to see iTunes again. I would have succeeded were it not for my damn company-provided iPhone! :)
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > iTunes is the most amazing piece of garbage I've ever been forced to use for so long. I don't have that many complaints about it. It looks weird on Windows, of course, but it blends in nicely on a Mac. From your comment, I assume you haven't used Sharepoint.
duaneb 14y ago
> That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. I think it is. I liked the zune myself and would have switched if it could sync with my mac. However, it's undeniable that the Zune was a failure. I think the OP's point remains true.
fidotron 14y ago
I had one, and while the Zune devices were great the PC software was the worst media navigation stuff since Sony's Minidisc<->PC efforts. The sad thing is MS appear to have expanded the Zune PC thing to cover the entire OS.
sjwright 14y ago
I'm sure the Zune was a fantabulous product. It was still an utterly failed strategy, because by that point, the game wasn't a competition about how nice to use the product was. The same is true for phones today.

e03179 14y ago

Agree. The Zune Pass worked great for me ($10/mo) to listen to all the music in their library on multiple devices and computers. I've said for a while that if Apple released a subscription-based iTunes that a lot of people would use it...perhaps even rave about it. And then Spotify came along which replaced my Zune Pass membership.

michaelbuckbee 14y ago

I played around (and rather liked the Zune) when it came out, but as with many of the devices discussed here it is more about the ecosystem than the device. I was very put off by moves that Microsoft had made with Plays4Sure[1] (oh the irony) and worried that they would do similar with Zune Marketplace. 1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure

Apple-Guy 14y ago

Microsoft's failures extend way far beyond the Zune: http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-device-failures/ http://obamapacman.com/2012/06/microsoft-tablet-pc-mobile-de...

barista 14y ago
Every company has failures and successes. For every a zune there is also xbox, Kinect and PC periferals. For iPad there are Apple TVs and Newtons, etc. What's the point?
- mrdodge 14y ago
  Xbox is a failure by almost every financial metric. Microsoft is not anywhere near recouping the initial costs. The entertainment/devices division is rarely profitable and last quarter lost over $200 million.
  - WrkInProgress 14y ago
    And the quarter before that ... the entertainment & devices division made $528 million. Here are the last six quarters prior to Q3 2012, all profitable http://betanews.com/2011/10/20/microsoft-q1-2012-by-the-numbers-17-37b-revenue-5-7-billion-profit/ http://betanews.com/2011/10/20/microsoft-q1-2012-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/07/21/microsoft-q4-2011-by-the-numbers-17-37b-revenue-5-87b-profit-69-cents-eps/ http://betanews.com/2011/07/21/microsoft-q4-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/04/28/microsoft-q3-2011-by-the-numbers-record-16-43b-windows-revenue-declines/ http://betanews.com/2011/04/28/microsoft-q3-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2011/01/27/microsoft-q2-2011-by-the-numbers-record-19-95b-revenue-77-cents-eps/ http://betanews.com/2011/01/27/microsoft-q2-2011-by-the-numb... http://betanews.com/2010/10/28/microsoft-q1-2011-by-the-numbers-beats-consensus-but-not-apple/ http://betanews.com/2010/10/28/microsoft-q1-2011-by-the-numb...
    - SigmundA 14y ago
      And yet the Xbox still hasn't recouped it's losses total. A few profitable quarters does not make up for years of losses. Here are some charts for you to make it painfully clear which divisions are profitable and keep MS running: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-lo... http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-profit-by-division-2011-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-pr...

csmeder 14y ago

I was given a Zune. It was well made and easy to navigate, much better than the Archos I bought before I bought my iPod. If the Zune had been released before the iPod, it would have been an impressive piece of hardware. A great product! However it wasn't. I tried really hard to enjoy my Zune. It felt like a waste just to throw it away. The problem was that it was almost as good as my iPod. Releasing a product that is almost as good as a product that came out 3 years earlier doesn't work. If you are going to release 3 years late, you have to be better. I agree with the above comment, Microsoft will fail it tries to beat apple where it is strong. Microsoft either needs to find a "Steve Jobs" who can drastically change its company culture or stop tying to compete with apple on consumer products. Note: I am being generous when I say it was almost as good. It had downsides. In particular the companion software to load up music was a bad experience. My guess is that when people say they loved their Zune, its because they wanted to love it. If you gave the same person an iPod (and they were being impartial) my guess is they would choose the iPod. However, I don't think its likely these Zune owners were impartial. It would not be a big surprise if most people who bought and defend the Zune are Microsoft Zealots that want to find reasons to prove Microsoft is great and Apple is bad.

Jare 14y ago
I can't believe you just complained about the Zune software in a comparison with Apple's stuff. iTunes is the most amazing piece of garbage I've ever been forced to use for so long. I bought an iPod in 2005, it was a nice piece of gear for sure, but for some random reason I ended up buying a Zune in 2007, and the iPod never saw the light again until I managed to break the Zune. The main reason for that is I never wanted to see iTunes again. I would have succeeded were it not for my damn company-provided iPhone! :)
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > iTunes is the most amazing piece of garbage I've ever been forced to use for so long. I don't have that many complaints about it. It looks weird on Windows, of course, but it blends in nicely on a Mac. From your comment, I assume you haven't used Sharepoint.

duaneb 14y ago

> That's not the best example to use of Microsoft's failure. I think it is. I liked the zune myself and would have switched if it could sync with my mac. However, it's undeniable that the Zune was a failure. I think the OP's point remains true.

fidotron 14y ago

I had one, and while the Zune devices were great the PC software was the worst media navigation stuff since Sony's Minidisc<->PC efforts. The sad thing is MS appear to have expanded the Zune PC thing to cover the entire OS.

sjwright 14y ago

I'm sure the Zune was a fantabulous product. It was still an utterly failed strategy, because by that point, the game wasn't a competition about how nice to use the product was. The same is true for phones today.