3 ms·

> That's a very US centric view It is of course however it can be argued that the US is somewhat of a unique case here. To quote wikipedia (which itself is ci

> That's a very US centric view It is of course however it can be argued that the US is somewhat of a unique case here. To quote wikipedia (which itself is citing three other sources in this quote's case) > According to labor historians, the US has the most violent labor history of any industrialized nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_States#Analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_history_of_the_United_St... So the US has a bit of a unique history here. A less than fun example of this is that the organized labor holiday "May Day" is celebrated in many countries notably excluding the US. This of course being despite the fact that the date was selected by the AFL (now AFL-CIO, one of the main union federations in the US) to memorialize the general strike in Chicago that ended in the Haymarket Massacre (May 1st 1886 - May 4th 1886).

CrazyStat 2y ago
> A less than fun example of this is that the organized labor holiday "May Day" is celebrated in many countries notably excluding the US. Because the US already had Labor Day in September, which predates the May 1 celebration.
- CuriousCosmic 2y ago
  That's quite a simplification. Labor day didn't become a holiday until after the May Day vs Labor Day debate started. It started as a concept in 1882 but it was not yet celebrated in any significant capacity and most unions pushed to change the day to May day after the Haymarket massacre in 1886. The first state to make it a holiday (Oregon) didn't do so until a year after the debate was already ongoing and it wouldn't become a federal holiday until 1894. Specifically the federal government pushed for Labor day over May day and chose to commemorate the one and not the other with a federal holiday because of fears that memorialising the Haymarket massacre would further empower the labor movement which was at its peak in the US at the time. And then in the 1950s the US government would then try to further overwrite May Day with "Loyalty Day" in a McCarthyian attempt to limit May Day's celebration.
  - CrazyStat 2y ago
    Let's see, where to start. > Specifically the federal government pushed for Labor day over May day and chose to commemorate the one and not the other with a federal holiday because of fears that memorialising the Haymarket massacre would further empower the labor movement which was at its peak in the US at the time. It's absolutely absurd to argue that the labor movement was at its peak in the US in the 1890s. This was the era of the Pullman strike--which the government infamously ended by force--and the Sherman Antitrust Act being used against unions under the theory that they were an illegal monopoly on labor. Labor in the US probably reached its peak after WWII. The 1890s were extremely business friendly. September Labor day preceded May day in both concept (1882 vs 1886) and legal observance. As you noted, the US made September labor day a public holiday in 1894. If you are aware of any country that made May day a public holiday before that time please tell me; I haven't done an exhaustive search, but here's a sampling of when European countries started observing May 1 as a public holiday: Austria: 1919 France: 1919 Germany: 1933 Russia: 1917 Spain: 1931 Sweden: 1938 UK: 1978
    - CuriousCosmic 2y ago
      > It's absolutely absurd to argue that the labor movement was at its peak in the US in the 1890s. This was the era of the Pullman strike--which the government infamously ended by force-- This wasn't just the era of the Pullman strike. This was during the Pullman strike. The federal government specifically tried to push through a labor day federal holiday as a concession to ease tensions during the Pullman strike. They would not push forward May Day as a federal holiday because they saw memorialising the Haymarket Massacre as inflammatory both in general and at that moment in particular given the volatile situation (even though in practice acknowledging the labor struggle's marred history would have been a better bridge towards peace than a concession and a following violent strike break). > and the Sherman Antitrust Act being used against unions under the theory that they were an illegal monopoly on labor. Labor in the US probably reached its peak after WWII. The 1890s were extremely business friendly. Yeah the establishment was extremely anti-union. That's why it was the peak of the labor movement at the time. This is exactly the same reason why the late 50s and the 60s were the peak of the civil rights movement at the time. Things were very bad and it was a painful bloody period where the people were rallying with all their might to try and force progress in the right direction. This is the exact time when everyone was out throwing themselves into the gears to try and make the powers that be listen. > If you are aware of any country that made May day a public holiday before that time please tell me I don't know of specific countries however the call for May Day to be made a public holiday in all countries was in 1904 and even before that there were demonstrations on May Day in the US and across Europe in the 1890s (in 1890 in particular). However that's not the important part. The important part is that in the US, even before legal observance, May Day was being observed by unions and those unions would strike on May Day if they weren't willingly given the day off to observe it. Hell the year that Labor day was made a federal holiday, that May Day (before the Pullman Strike had started) there were the May Day riots of 1894 in Cleveland. And it's not like I'm claiming that May Day was already established outside the US at that point. It grew outside the US later but it was very much an American labor movement holiday and had at that point replaced labor day as the holiday of the worker. Labor day started as a holiday of the worker but the events of the era quickly shifted that date to May Day and Labor day instead became a minor concession from the government and businesses so as to appease workers without giving them the thing they were actively asking for.

CrazyStat 2y ago

> A less than fun example of this is that the organized labor holiday "May Day" is celebrated in many countries notably excluding the US. Because the US already had Labor Day in September, which predates the May 1 celebration.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago
That's quite a simplification. Labor day didn't become a holiday until after the May Day vs Labor Day debate started. It started as a concept in 1882 but it was not yet celebrated in any significant capacity and most unions pushed to change the day to May day after the Haymarket massacre in 1886. The first state to make it a holiday (Oregon) didn't do so until a year after the debate was already ongoing and it wouldn't become a federal holiday until 1894. Specifically the federal government pushed for Labor day over May day and chose to commemorate the one and not the other with a federal holiday because of fears that memorialising the Haymarket massacre would further empower the labor movement which was at its peak in the US at the time. And then in the 1950s the US government would then try to further overwrite May Day with "Loyalty Day" in a McCarthyian attempt to limit May Day's celebration.
- CrazyStat 2y ago
  Let's see, where to start. > Specifically the federal government pushed for Labor day over May day and chose to commemorate the one and not the other with a federal holiday because of fears that memorialising the Haymarket massacre would further empower the labor movement which was at its peak in the US at the time. It's absolutely absurd to argue that the labor movement was at its peak in the US in the 1890s. This was the era of the Pullman strike--which the government infamously ended by force--and the Sherman Antitrust Act being used against unions under the theory that they were an illegal monopoly on labor. Labor in the US probably reached its peak after WWII. The 1890s were extremely business friendly. September Labor day preceded May day in both concept (1882 vs 1886) and legal observance. As you noted, the US made September labor day a public holiday in 1894. If you are aware of any country that made May day a public holiday before that time please tell me; I haven't done an exhaustive search, but here's a sampling of when European countries started observing May 1 as a public holiday: Austria: 1919 France: 1919 Germany: 1933 Russia: 1917 Spain: 1931 Sweden: 1938 UK: 1978
  - CuriousCosmic 2y ago
    > It's absolutely absurd to argue that the labor movement was at its peak in the US in the 1890s. This was the era of the Pullman strike--which the government infamously ended by force-- This wasn't just the era of the Pullman strike. This was during the Pullman strike. The federal government specifically tried to push through a labor day federal holiday as a concession to ease tensions during the Pullman strike. They would not push forward May Day as a federal holiday because they saw memorialising the Haymarket Massacre as inflammatory both in general and at that moment in particular given the volatile situation (even though in practice acknowledging the labor struggle's marred history would have been a better bridge towards peace than a concession and a following violent strike break). > and the Sherman Antitrust Act being used against unions under the theory that they were an illegal monopoly on labor. Labor in the US probably reached its peak after WWII. The 1890s were extremely business friendly. Yeah the establishment was extremely anti-union. That's why it was the peak of the labor movement at the time. This is exactly the same reason why the late 50s and the 60s were the peak of the civil rights movement at the time. Things were very bad and it was a painful bloody period where the people were rallying with all their might to try and force progress in the right direction. This is the exact time when everyone was out throwing themselves into the gears to try and make the powers that be listen. > If you are aware of any country that made May day a public holiday before that time please tell me I don't know of specific countries however the call for May Day to be made a public holiday in all countries was in 1904 and even before that there were demonstrations on May Day in the US and across Europe in the 1890s (in 1890 in particular). However that's not the important part. The important part is that in the US, even before legal observance, May Day was being observed by unions and those unions would strike on May Day if they weren't willingly given the day off to observe it. Hell the year that Labor day was made a federal holiday, that May Day (before the Pullman Strike had started) there were the May Day riots of 1894 in Cleveland. And it's not like I'm claiming that May Day was already established outside the US at that point. It grew outside the US later but it was very much an American labor movement holiday and had at that point replaced labor day as the holiday of the worker. Labor day started as a holiday of the worker but the events of the era quickly shifted that date to May Day and Labor day instead became a minor concession from the government and businesses so as to appease workers without giving them the thing they were actively asking for.