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I was very interested in seeing where Etoile might go as it looked fantastic to me. Right now the most interesting thing I have seen in this space is helloSyste

I was very interested in seeing where Etoile might go as it looked fantastic to me. Right now the most interesting thing I have seen in this space is helloSystem.

pipeline_peak 2y ago
I feel like the premise of helloSystem is the simple fact that macOS uses parts on FreeBSD therefore they decided to dress up FreeBSD to look more like macOS lol. To me that’s not some meaningful that solves a fundamental problem. GNUSTEP is meaningful because it actually attempts to reimplement Cocoa. Because of that, I found Etoile more interesting than helloSystem because in turn it attempted to make GNUSTEP presentable to the non tech world in a way WindowMaker never will. I can understand helloSystem choice to ignore GNUSTEP given the GNUSTEP community is small and virtually inactive but again, it’s just another ooh aah shiny project that won’t get off the ground ever. If I were them I’d just port one of the many macOS looking desktop environments like whatever ElementsryOS or PopOS uses to FreeBSD and build from there. That’s obviously more productive, but productivity can be boring because it’s real and not a hobby project. :P
- jwells89 2y ago
  > If I were them I’d just port one of the many macOS looking desktop environments like whatever ElementsryOS or PopOS uses to FreeBSD and build from there. That’s obviously more productive, but productivity can be boring because it’s real and not a hobby project. :P I’m not sure how much productive it’d be in the long run, at least if faithfully replicating macOS is the goal. PopOS is bailing on GNOME (what it had been using) in favor of a bespoke DE because modifying GNOME had become too much of a pain, even for their relatively modest changes. Pantheon (elementary’s DE) closely resembles GNOME for likely similar reasons. Not that any of the other DEs would serve as better bases, unfortunately. No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb.
  - pipeline_peak 2y ago
    >No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb. I looked more into the project, his goal is actually to replicate the macOS from the 90s to early 2000s. I’m optimistic about a goal like that, but it’s more about the QA that comes with these sorts of higher level projects. I don’t think they have the resources to make something as out of the box as Ubuntu unless they use elementary or pop as their basis. That being said, why can’t they just branch off into a DE with easy installation on BSD or any *nix loke XFCE or MATE? From what I’ve seen, they don’t have a real reason to even use FreeBSD. This way they’d increase the likelihood of adoption but maybe at the trade off of supporting multiple platforms which I’d imagine can be a pain.
    - jwells89 2y ago
      I agree that using FreeBSD as the base OS probably isn't necessary, but it does make sense if they're trying to provide an alternative to macOS, with the macOS userland much more closely resembling FreeBSD's than GNU's. There are BSD-styled Linux distros that could serve this purpose too, though. The problem with using almost any existing DE as a base is that Linux DEs are all inclined toward non-mac UI paradigms (most being Windows-like and a couple iPad-like), which means required changes will be numerous and deep. So much so that the benefit of not starting from scratch is dubious.
  - cxr 2y ago
    > Not that any of the other DEs would serve as better bases, unfortunately. No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb. No idea what the Elementary, helloSystem, Etoile, etc. folks are messing around about. The Cappuccino Project's Aristo is the best base to start with, and arguably looks better than Aqua. (I was never a fan of Aqua's overshined blue dialog buttons and scrollbars.)
    - Lammy 2y ago
      Neat — I like it https://www.cappuccino.dev/aristo/showcase/ https://www.cappuccino.dev/aristo/showcase/

I was very interested in seeing where Etoile might go as it looked fantastic to me. Right now the most interesting thing I have seen in this space is helloSystem.

pipeline_peak 2y ago

I feel like the premise of helloSystem is the simple fact that macOS uses parts on FreeBSD therefore they decided to dress up FreeBSD to look more like macOS lol. To me that’s not some meaningful that solves a fundamental problem. GNUSTEP is meaningful because it actually attempts to reimplement Cocoa. Because of that, I found Etoile more interesting than helloSystem because in turn it attempted to make GNUSTEP presentable to the non tech world in a way WindowMaker never will. I can understand helloSystem choice to ignore GNUSTEP given the GNUSTEP community is small and virtually inactive but again, it’s just another ooh aah shiny project that won’t get off the ground ever. If I were them I’d just port one of the many macOS looking desktop environments like whatever ElementsryOS or PopOS uses to FreeBSD and build from there. That’s obviously more productive, but productivity can be boring because it’s real and not a hobby project. :P

jwells89 2y ago
> If I were them I’d just port one of the many macOS looking desktop environments like whatever ElementsryOS or PopOS uses to FreeBSD and build from there. That’s obviously more productive, but productivity can be boring because it’s real and not a hobby project. :P I’m not sure how much productive it’d be in the long run, at least if faithfully replicating macOS is the goal. PopOS is bailing on GNOME (what it had been using) in favor of a bespoke DE because modifying GNOME had become too much of a pain, even for their relatively modest changes. Pantheon (elementary’s DE) closely resembles GNOME for likely similar reasons. Not that any of the other DEs would serve as better bases, unfortunately. No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb.
- pipeline_peak 2y ago
  >No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb. I looked more into the project, his goal is actually to replicate the macOS from the 90s to early 2000s. I’m optimistic about a goal like that, but it’s more about the QA that comes with these sorts of higher level projects. I don’t think they have the resources to make something as out of the box as Ubuntu unless they use elementary or pop as their basis. That being said, why can’t they just branch off into a DE with easy installation on BSD or any *nix loke XFCE or MATE? From what I’ve seen, they don’t have a real reason to even use FreeBSD. This way they’d increase the likelihood of adoption but maybe at the trade off of supporting multiple platforms which I’d imagine can be a pain.
  - jwells89 2y ago
    I agree that using FreeBSD as the base OS probably isn't necessary, but it does make sense if they're trying to provide an alternative to macOS, with the macOS userland much more closely resembling FreeBSD's than GNU's. There are BSD-styled Linux distros that could serve this purpose too, though. The problem with using almost any existing DE as a base is that Linux DEs are all inclined toward non-mac UI paradigms (most being Windows-like and a couple iPad-like), which means required changes will be numerous and deep. So much so that the benefit of not starting from scratch is dubious.
- cxr 2y ago
  > Not that any of the other DEs would serve as better bases, unfortunately. No matter what making a Mac-style DE is going to be a steep uphill climb. No idea what the Elementary, helloSystem, Etoile, etc. folks are messing around about. The Cappuccino Project's Aristo is the best base to start with, and arguably looks better than Aqua. (I was never a fan of Aqua's overshined blue dialog buttons and scrollbars.)
  - Lammy 2y ago
    Neat — I like it https://www.cappuccino.dev/aristo/showcase/ https://www.cappuccino.dev/aristo/showcase/