7 ms·

Kotlin for data analysis

172 points by saikatsg 2y ago

dr_kiszonka 2y ago
Kotlin aside, what is the deal with many websites not letting me zoom on mobile? (It is hard to see what is going on in the notebooks without zooming in.)
- bakuvi 2y ago
  I can zoom in on safari/iphone
- ak1ng 2y ago
  I find that annoying as well. Luckily on Firefox Android at least that can be fixed with a browser setting (Settings > Accessibility > Always enable zoom).
  - xahrepap 2y ago
    I do the same on Safari on iPhone. Enable the accessibility setting and browsers can't lock your zoom anymore.
  - pvorb 2y ago
    Thanks! I didn't know that setting existed and I always wanted this behavior.
- pvorb 2y ago
  IIRC this used to be propagated back in the early HTML5 days. At least that's how it got to my personal website. I might've got it from html5boilerplate.com or a similar site.
- itohihiyt 2y ago
  In Firefox mobile go to accessibility settings and turn on zoom on all websites.
binkHN 2y ago
While I came to Kotlin for Android, I'll admit that I've been making things look like nails so that I can use the Kotlin hammer.
abeppu 2y ago
I find it odd that kotlin-jupyter notebooks still use the `.ipynb` file extension.
- fshr 2y ago
  Maybe a little odd, but it did start with Python. I mean, Jupyter stands for Julia, Python, and R already - so it's not too weird they just keep using the same file format.
  - saikatsg 2y ago
    Jupyterk ;)
nesk_ 2y ago
JetBrains wrote a really good article to showcase how you can analyze your GitHub stars with their data analysis tools: https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2024/08/track-and-analyze-github-star-growth-with-kandy-and-kotlin-dataframe/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2024/08/track-and-analyze-...
jillesvangurp 2y ago
I do both Kotlin and Python. More Kotlin than Python to be honest. But I'm pragmatic. Python is where all the action is when it comes to data science, llms, and all the rest. So it's the path of the least resistance. And there's a great argument to not challenge that and just do what everybody else does and put your head down and not criticize any of that. Which is why I use it on a few projects. The library ecosystem is great. Etc. Bla bla bla. But the bottom line is that I don't love python. It's dreary to me. Mediocre. I can't get very excited about any of it. It just seems so backwards. And it's not necessarily the most efficient path either. The interpreter is not that fast, the language is not that expressive, what passes for package management is a bad joke, etc. I can work with it but I'm not necessarily loving it. For data engineering, Kotlin has a lot to offer. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because it's all kind of niche. But it kind of works as well. If you aren't afraid of tinkering with it, there are a lot of other niche solutions out there as well that aren't python. Kotlin is what I reach for when I want to get stuff done in a hurry. Part of that is just my limitation. It's what I know and I kind of grew up on JVM languages. I'm well aware that's not necessarily optimal and that that's just a bias I have. But objectively, it has a lot of nice things over modern python as well. Kotlin is a modern language, it's a lot more expressive than python. It has a a great library ecosystem. Including some stuff that does not depend on the JVM. And even though it's kind of niche for a lot of things I use it for (e.g. developing reactive web frontends), it holds up well and rarely disappoints me. People use python because everybody else uses python. That's it. It's not particularly good at anything it does. But it will get the job done and I can do it. But that just isn't good enough for me. It's the visual basic for data science. And that's not a compliment. Being idiot proof is it's main feature. But that doesn't make it the smart choice.
- esafak 2y ago
  Kotlin just needs some stubborn people not to use python just because everyone else does, and build up the Kotlin ecosystem. That's how progress is made.
  - gavmor 2y ago
    If someone wants to pay me to do this, I have some free time Mondays and Wednesdays.
andy800 2y ago
Inspired by an SQL tutorial that was #1 on this site earlier this year, I created (cloned) one for learning the Kotlin Dataframe API. https://2x2xplz.github.io/Dataframe100Examples/ https://2x2xplz.github.io/Dataframe100Examples/
qaq 2y ago
or Mojo :)
jiggunjer 2y ago
I've yet to find anything that beats R's ggplot, both in terms of DSL and graphic design defaults.
surfingdino 2y ago
My issue with Kotlin is the same as my issue with Groovy. Both are interesting and definitely something new, but... under the hood it's JVM and come with the Java baggage. Some see it as an advantage, I see it as a burden. My clients are using mostly Python and Golang and I have grown to like simple toolchains and the results I am getting. Another point against Kotlin is the fact that my clients like to keep things simple and lean and are against introducing another programming language to their stack unless they absolutely have to.
- freilanzer 2y ago
  Same. I like Kotlin and used it for AOC, but I dislike the JVM. A great standalone Kotlin would be one of my most used languages.
  - hocuspocus 2y ago
    Great languages don't exist in isolation. Kotlin without its main platforms (JVM and Android) and the ecosystem of Java libraries doesn't stand a chance against the current landscape of modern hybrid languages. Unless something major happens on the WebAssembly front maybe, but even there I don't see how Kotlin would be particularly well positioned.
    - freilanzer 2y ago
      True, but the JVM is so cumbersome that I will use something else instead.
      - robch 2y ago
        You can also try to use Kotlin Multiplatform to compile to JavaScript, Native and WASM. JVM was just the initial platform target.
- erokar 2y ago
  I agree. I want to avoid the JVM. Also some functional features in Kotlin like immutable data structures are shallow and can be circumvented. Also, practically it's only really viable to use IntelliJ as editor, since the language server in e.g. VS Code is pretty bad.
sorokod 2y ago
Kotlin Notebooks are supported only in the Ultimate version of IDEA
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  The Jetbrains plugin is. However, the Github page (https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-jupyter https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-jupyter) states: > For other Jupyter clients, you'll need to install the Kotlin Kernel separately using conda, pip, or sources. I think `pip install kotlin-jupyter-kernel` is all you need to add Kotlin to a standard Jupyter environment. I don't know if editors can deal with this stuff, though.
3shv 2y ago
Talk to me when I can write spark code using kotlin.

172 points by saikatsg 2y ago

Kotlin aside, what is the deal with many websites not letting me zoom on mobile? (It is hard to see what is going on in the notebooks without zooming in.)

bakuvi 2y ago
I can zoom in on safari/iphone
ak1ng 2y ago
I find that annoying as well. Luckily on Firefox Android at least that can be fixed with a browser setting (Settings > Accessibility > Always enable zoom).
- xahrepap 2y ago
  I do the same on Safari on iPhone. Enable the accessibility setting and browsers can't lock your zoom anymore.
- pvorb 2y ago
  Thanks! I didn't know that setting existed and I always wanted this behavior.
pvorb 2y ago
IIRC this used to be propagated back in the early HTML5 days. At least that's how it got to my personal website. I might've got it from html5boilerplate.com or a similar site.
itohihiyt 2y ago
In Firefox mobile go to accessibility settings and turn on zoom on all websites.

binkHN 2y ago

While I came to Kotlin for Android, I'll admit that I've been making things look like nails so that I can use the Kotlin hammer.

abeppu 2y ago

I find it odd that kotlin-jupyter notebooks still use the `.ipynb` file extension.

fshr 2y ago
Maybe a little odd, but it did start with Python. I mean, Jupyter stands for Julia, Python, and R already - so it's not too weird they just keep using the same file format.
- saikatsg 2y ago
  Jupyterk ;)

nesk_ 2y ago

JetBrains wrote a really good article to showcase how you can analyze your GitHub stars with their data analysis tools: https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2024/08/track-and-analyze-github-star-growth-with-kandy-and-kotlin-dataframe/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2024/08/track-and-analyze-...

jillesvangurp 2y ago

I do both Kotlin and Python. More Kotlin than Python to be honest. But I'm pragmatic. Python is where all the action is when it comes to data science, llms, and all the rest. So it's the path of the least resistance. And there's a great argument to not challenge that and just do what everybody else does and put your head down and not criticize any of that. Which is why I use it on a few projects. The library ecosystem is great. Etc. Bla bla bla. But the bottom line is that I don't love python. It's dreary to me. Mediocre. I can't get very excited about any of it. It just seems so backwards. And it's not necessarily the most efficient path either. The interpreter is not that fast, the language is not that expressive, what passes for package management is a bad joke, etc. I can work with it but I'm not necessarily loving it. For data engineering, Kotlin has a lot to offer. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it because it's all kind of niche. But it kind of works as well. If you aren't afraid of tinkering with it, there are a lot of other niche solutions out there as well that aren't python. Kotlin is what I reach for when I want to get stuff done in a hurry. Part of that is just my limitation. It's what I know and I kind of grew up on JVM languages. I'm well aware that's not necessarily optimal and that that's just a bias I have. But objectively, it has a lot of nice things over modern python as well. Kotlin is a modern language, it's a lot more expressive than python. It has a a great library ecosystem. Including some stuff that does not depend on the JVM. And even though it's kind of niche for a lot of things I use it for (e.g. developing reactive web frontends), it holds up well and rarely disappoints me. People use python because everybody else uses python. That's it. It's not particularly good at anything it does. But it will get the job done and I can do it. But that just isn't good enough for me. It's the visual basic for data science. And that's not a compliment. Being idiot proof is it's main feature. But that doesn't make it the smart choice.

esafak 2y ago
Kotlin just needs some stubborn people not to use python just because everyone else does, and build up the Kotlin ecosystem. That's how progress is made.
- gavmor 2y ago
  If someone wants to pay me to do this, I have some free time Mondays and Wednesdays.

andy800 2y ago

Inspired by an SQL tutorial that was #1 on this site earlier this year, I created (cloned) one for learning the Kotlin Dataframe API. https://2x2xplz.github.io/Dataframe100Examples/ https://2x2xplz.github.io/Dataframe100Examples/

qaq 2y ago

or Mojo :)

jiggunjer 2y ago

I've yet to find anything that beats R's ggplot, both in terms of DSL and graphic design defaults.

surfingdino 2y ago

My issue with Kotlin is the same as my issue with Groovy. Both are interesting and definitely something new, but... under the hood it's JVM and come with the Java baggage. Some see it as an advantage, I see it as a burden. My clients are using mostly Python and Golang and I have grown to like simple toolchains and the results I am getting. Another point against Kotlin is the fact that my clients like to keep things simple and lean and are against introducing another programming language to their stack unless they absolutely have to.

freilanzer 2y ago
Same. I like Kotlin and used it for AOC, but I dislike the JVM. A great standalone Kotlin would be one of my most used languages.
- hocuspocus 2y ago
  Great languages don't exist in isolation. Kotlin without its main platforms (JVM and Android) and the ecosystem of Java libraries doesn't stand a chance against the current landscape of modern hybrid languages. Unless something major happens on the WebAssembly front maybe, but even there I don't see how Kotlin would be particularly well positioned.
  - freilanzer 2y ago
    True, but the JVM is so cumbersome that I will use something else instead.
    - robch 2y ago
      You can also try to use Kotlin Multiplatform to compile to JavaScript, Native and WASM. JVM was just the initial platform target.
erokar 2y ago
I agree. I want to avoid the JVM. Also some functional features in Kotlin like immutable data structures are shallow and can be circumvented. Also, practically it's only really viable to use IntelliJ as editor, since the language server in e.g. VS Code is pretty bad.

sorokod 2y ago

Kotlin Notebooks are supported only in the Ultimate version of IDEA

jeroenhd 2y ago
The Jetbrains plugin is. However, the Github page (https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-jupyter https://github.com/Kotlin/kotlin-jupyter) states: > For other Jupyter clients, you'll need to install the Kotlin Kernel separately using conda, pip, or sources. I think `pip install kotlin-jupyter-kernel` is all you need to add Kotlin to a standard Jupyter environment. I don't know if editors can deal with this stuff, though.

3shv 2y ago

Talk to me when I can write spark code using kotlin.