26 ms·

OpenTofu removed Russian-originated clouds unreasonably explain by sanctions

37 points by wertik12 2y ago

_lvbh 2y ago
Related: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
ShakataGaNai 2y ago
IANAL but this change doesn't seem to make sense from any sort of "sanctions" perspective. Sure, block sanctioned countries from accessing your website or registry, etc - that makes sense. But removing providers? That doesn't seem to be related. The thing that makes this *super* f'd up is the fact that #1 - There is no commentary from the group members explaining this or what the policy change is (the few linked TSC documents are just about registry, not about providers). #2 - There is no explanation in the PR and no linked bugs. #3 - The super vague "remove some providers" title. It's clear OpenTofu devs were trying to slide this change in under the cover of darkness and hope no one noticed. Which makes zero sense for an OPEN source project. You don't have to like the providers, you don't have to support them. You can even say they are actively deprecated due to the inability to test/support said providers (which totally would make sense). But just to straight out remove functional code with zero warning, notice or explanation? Super scummy.
- egamirorrim 2y ago
  > Super scummy. Kind of like what Russia's doing to Ukraine eh?
  - ebcode 2y ago
    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." -- Mahatma Gandhi
    - paulcarroty 2y ago
      So maybe better give Putin more hugs like Modi did? LOL.
    - yaa110 2y ago
      An eye for an eye prevents further harm, so let's be sensible.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - anone9462 2y ago
    So, you are saying, OpenTofu is like Russia, and can use scummy methods. Basically, this is OK for closed dictatorship. But there are a lot of "good" people, supporting Ukrainians, that still claiming that ClosedTofu is open source. So, basically, it is about hypocrisy. Either you are voting that OpenTofu is same garbage as Russia, so it can use scummy things, either you are saying that OpenTofu should be open source, and this change should be reverted. And if you saying, that OpenTofu is still open source, and do not revert that change, then, well, you are just hypocrite with low brain activity.
_lvbh 2y ago
Suspicious new account. Russian bot? /s > so that valuable features and fixes are accepted based on their value to the community, regardless of their impact on any particular vendor. - https://opentofu.org https://opentofu.org It’s sad that everything revolves around politics these days. They claim sanctions but it’s quite obvious this is just the personal opinion of the team.
sgt 2y ago
That's going too far.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
taukanda 2y ago
I'm an outsider (not a contributor or related to parties in the suspected "political" origins, and had not created an HN account until now) but it was pretty easy to find the reason behind the change. Scroll down and there's the unanimous decision to block Russian access from registry due to sanctions. https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/817#issuecomment-2314944090 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/817#issuecomment-2... https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/blob/main/TSC_SUMMARY.md#sanctions-russia-vs-registry-access https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/blob/main/TSC_SUMMARY.m... > Sanctions Russia vs registry access > > Add note to README during PR documenting this discussion in TSC_SUMMARY > Block Russian IP Blocks from accessing our registry in Cloudflare > > Decision > Vote: unanimous yes Now if you want to blow this out of proportion you certainly can. Turn on the conspiracy tap of "trying to slid this in under the cover of darkness" but the fact of the matter is the Technical Steering Committee decided on something and acted on it, as their role grants them the power to do so. Anything else is just assumption.
- wertik12 2y ago
  The main question is not about IPs, but about cloud providers configs. See more details here: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
  - taukanda 2y ago
    Not a lawyer, but isn't this under the same guidelines as decided by the TSC? no Russian use or access? Again heavy emphasis on "TSC" as the role.
    - wertik12 2y ago
      In TSC I see IP block is mentioned? What do you mean by "Russian" access? From Russia? By people with Russian passport? By employees of Russian company? What if I live in Kazahstan and want to use Yandex.Cloud datacenter located there: https://yandex.cloud/en/docs/troubleshooting/business/how-to/accessing-data-centers-in-kazakhstan https://yandex.cloud/en/docs/troubleshooting/business/how-to...?
regnull 2y ago
You can't just say it's unreasonable without providing some justification for this point of view.
- wertik12 2y ago
  Yep, it is nicely reviewed here: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
milliams 2y ago
I am amazed at how quickly that issue gathered all those comments, all with more thumbs up than I've even seen for one of these GitHub dramas.
- taukanda 2y ago
  and I'll bet most of them are like "TotallyJoeMcNuggets" with .ru emails and <10 repositories that are either scraping or CTF tasks or anti-malware tools.
  - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
    "How do you do, fellow Americans? Let's eat hot dogs and drink Coca Cola!"
- maximinus_thrax 2y ago
  Right? Almost as if it's some sort of brigading. Very surprised to see how many Russian developers care about this.
Mrwonderkid 2y ago
[flagged]
ebcode 2y ago
As a new user of OpenTofu, I find this disheartening. But if I try to put myself in the shoes of "the Ukranian dev", I can understand it. Then I think about the United States' past (and present) wars of aggression overseas, and I can only imagine what a bad reputation american citizens must have all over the world. I'm sure many strangers must hate my guts without knowing me at all, and they have good reason for it. But ultimately I think that pull/817 is discriminatory against a group of people, and therefor in violation of Github's TOS. I hope OpenTofu's core devs can have a change of heart. And as hard as it might be, I hope "the Ukrainian dev" can have one too. And who knows, maybe even Putin himself will be capable of a change of heart.
miry 2y ago
Thank you, OpenTofu! You've brightened our days, and many people around the world are grateful for this change. The people of moscowia should be isolated from modern society until they have earned trust by beginning with internal reforms.

37 points by wertik12 2y ago

Related: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824

IANAL but this change doesn't seem to make sense from any sort of "sanctions" perspective. Sure, block sanctioned countries from accessing your website or registry, etc - that makes sense. But removing providers? That doesn't seem to be related. The thing that makes this *super* f'd up is the fact that #1 - There is no commentary from the group members explaining this or what the policy change is (the few linked TSC documents are just about registry, not about providers). #2 - There is no explanation in the PR and no linked bugs. #3 - The super vague "remove some providers" title. It's clear OpenTofu devs were trying to slide this change in under the cover of darkness and hope no one noticed. Which makes zero sense for an OPEN source project. You don't have to like the providers, you don't have to support them. You can even say they are actively deprecated due to the inability to test/support said providers (which totally would make sense). But just to straight out remove functional code with zero warning, notice or explanation? Super scummy.

egamirorrim 2y ago
> Super scummy. Kind of like what Russia's doing to Ukraine eh?
- ebcode 2y ago
  "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." -- Mahatma Gandhi
  - paulcarroty 2y ago
    So maybe better give Putin more hugs like Modi did? LOL.
  - yaa110 2y ago
    An eye for an eye prevents further harm, so let's be sensible.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  [flagged]
- anone9462 2y ago
  So, you are saying, OpenTofu is like Russia, and can use scummy methods. Basically, this is OK for closed dictatorship. But there are a lot of "good" people, supporting Ukrainians, that still claiming that ClosedTofu is open source. So, basically, it is about hypocrisy. Either you are voting that OpenTofu is same garbage as Russia, so it can use scummy things, either you are saying that OpenTofu should be open source, and this change should be reverted. And if you saying, that OpenTofu is still open source, and do not revert that change, then, well, you are just hypocrite with low brain activity.

_lvbh 2y ago

Suspicious new account. Russian bot? /s > so that valuable features and fixes are accepted based on their value to the community, regardless of their impact on any particular vendor. - https://opentofu.org https://opentofu.org It’s sad that everything revolves around politics these days. They claim sanctions but it’s quite obvious this is just the personal opinion of the team.

sgt 2y ago

That's going too far.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

taukanda 2y ago

I'm an outsider (not a contributor or related to parties in the suspected "political" origins, and had not created an HN account until now) but it was pretty easy to find the reason behind the change. Scroll down and there's the unanimous decision to block Russian access from registry due to sanctions. https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/817#issuecomment-2314944090 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/817#issuecomment-2... https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/blob/main/TSC_SUMMARY.md#sanctions-russia-vs-registry-access https://github.com/opentofu/opentofu/blob/main/TSC_SUMMARY.m... > Sanctions Russia vs registry access > > Add note to README during PR documenting this discussion in TSC_SUMMARY > Block Russian IP Blocks from accessing our registry in Cloudflare > > Decision > Vote: unanimous yes Now if you want to blow this out of proportion you certainly can. Turn on the conspiracy tap of "trying to slid this in under the cover of darkness" but the fact of the matter is the Technical Steering Committee decided on something and acted on it, as their role grants them the power to do so. Anything else is just assumption.

wertik12 2y ago
The main question is not about IPs, but about cloud providers configs. See more details here: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
- taukanda 2y ago
  Not a lawyer, but isn't this under the same guidelines as decided by the TSC? no Russian use or access? Again heavy emphasis on "TSC" as the role.
  - wertik12 2y ago
    In TSC I see IP block is mentioned? What do you mean by "Russian" access? From Russia? By people with Russian passport? By employees of Russian company? What if I live in Kazahstan and want to use Yandex.Cloud datacenter located there: https://yandex.cloud/en/docs/troubleshooting/business/how-to/accessing-data-centers-in-kazakhstan https://yandex.cloud/en/docs/troubleshooting/business/how-to...?

regnull 2y ago

You can't just say it's unreasonable without providing some justification for this point of view.

wertik12 2y ago
Yep, it is nicely reviewed here: https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824 https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824

milliams 2y ago

I am amazed at how quickly that issue gathered all those comments, all with more thumbs up than I've even seen for one of these GitHub dramas.

taukanda 2y ago
and I'll bet most of them are like "TotallyJoeMcNuggets" with .ru emails and <10 repositories that are either scraping or CTF tasks or anti-malware tools.
- maximinus_thrax 2y ago
  "How do you do, fellow Americans? Let's eat hot dogs and drink Coca Cola!"
maximinus_thrax 2y ago
Right? Almost as if it's some sort of brigading. Very surprised to see how many Russian developers care about this.

Mrwonderkid 2y ago

[flagged]

ebcode 2y ago

As a new user of OpenTofu, I find this disheartening. But if I try to put myself in the shoes of "the Ukranian dev", I can understand it. Then I think about the United States' past (and present) wars of aggression overseas, and I can only imagine what a bad reputation american citizens must have all over the world. I'm sure many strangers must hate my guts without knowing me at all, and they have good reason for it. But ultimately I think that pull/817 is discriminatory against a group of people, and therefor in violation of Github's TOS. I hope OpenTofu's core devs can have a change of heart. And as hard as it might be, I hope "the Ukrainian dev" can have one too. And who knows, maybe even Putin himself will be capable of a change of heart.

miry 2y ago

Thank you, OpenTofu! You've brightened our days, and many people around the world are grateful for this change. The people of moscowia should be isolated from modern society until they have earned trust by beginning with internal reforms.