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Anybody buying FSD is a fool, and you know what they say about fools and their money. It blows my mind that some consumers would spend $8K on a feature without

Anybody buying FSD is a fool, and you know what they say about fools and their money. It blows my mind that some consumers would spend $8K on a feature without doing the 5 minutes of research it would take to determine that FSD isn't here, and won't be here for years. I own a Tesla, and I chose not to buy FSD because in 2019 when I bought it, it simply didn't work based on what I had read. Earlier this year, when Tesla gave a trial to all Tesla owners, I tried it out and was surprised at how good it was, but it still make bad mistakes, one time even curbing the rear wheel while navigating a curve to the right [0], despite it knowing exactly where the curb was. The problem is that you still have to babysit it. And if you have the babysit a self-driving feature, then it's entirely useless. It becomes nothing more than a party trick to show off to friends about how neat it is. Autopilot is great. Love it, especially on road trips. But until FSD is good enough to drive my drunk ass home from a party and even park in my driveway, I'm staying away (and staying sober!). [0] Here's the curb it hit: https://maps.app.goo.gl/BLeqSywhXHRyf7a39 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BLeqSywhXHRyf7a39. With how wide that lane is, there's no reason it should have cut it so close that it hit the curb. There wasn't even anybody next to me.

ascorbic 2y ago
You chose wisely. I got FSD in 2019 and it was frankly terrifying.
jm4 2y ago
I am so bitter about my FSD purchase in 2019. At the time, there were some enhanced autopilot features and the rest was promised by the end of the year. I occasionally try it out and it's so bad. It feels completely unsafe. FSD has left such a bad taste that I almost never use even basic autopilot. I feel like I was conned out of $6000. I will never buy another Tesla as long as fraudster Elon is at the helm.
- baggachipz 2y ago
  I got mine for only $2000 and I feel conned. Nonstop empty promises, suddenly removed from the site as the date comes and goes. e.g., "Your car will be able to drop you off, park, and come get you by the end of the year. Really." That was two years ago at least.
  - jm4 2y ago
    Remember that bullshit demo video where it drops the guy off in front of the office and parks itself? I don't understand how Elon isn't behind bars by now. How many staged demo videos have we seen? How many promises? These silly investor presentations where he makes wild claims? Robotaxis? The Cybertruck being built for Mars? It's one lie after another. The amounts by which he's inflated the company's value and his own net worth with his lies and scams dwarfs Bernie Madoff. He's lied to squeeze short sellers who are onto his bullshit. He ran that Dogecoin pump and dump. The scale and audacity of his schemes are truly epic.
    - baggachipz 2y ago
      It really helped me as an investor, which I am no longer. :) But yeah, I dumped it during the robotaxi """news""" knowing it's another pump. It's really a meme stock and personal piggy bank for Elon at this point. And I don't want to fund facism any longer. And you're right, how hasn't there an Elizabeth Holmes-like arrest?
    - taylodl 2y ago
      That's why Musk supports Trump. Two conmen cut from the same cloth.
      - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
        It's the only logical explanation. Otherwise, Musk's hard-right turn just makes zero sense. People on the right generally don't want EVs, while the people on the left do. He alienated his largest potential customer base for what reason? FFS, Trump even said he'd ban EVs (Though we all know it won't actually happen) and Musk still supports him! I'm convinced Musk just doesn't care about Tesla anymore. Cybertruck release has been an utter disaster and he has no desire to make it right.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Anybody buying FSD is a fool Anyone treating FSD as anything more than an L3 in beta (i.e. not L3) is a fool. That still leaves plenty of safe-enough entertaining use. > if you have the babysit a self-driving feature, then it's entirely useless I don't think so. My Subaru has L2 lanekeeping functions. I absolutely have to babysit it. But it's fun. And it reduces the stress of driving. FSD is more stressful. But it's also more entertaining, and I don't think materially unsafe if it's being properly monitored.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Is entertainment value really a good goal for such a system? A key part of entertainment is typically surprise, and that's also normally a bad characteristic of a safety-critical system.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  I feel that simple lane-keeping is different. I mean, that's all Autopilot is: Traffic aware cruise control and automatic lane keeping. That's all it is. It does not navigate. It does not obey stop signs, traffic lights, etc. It won't even change lanes. Technically, yes, AP requires babysitting, but it's at an entirely different level from FSD on city streets. Highway driving requires less attention than city driving. You're mostly keeping eyes forward with the occasional check of your mirrors. City driving requires lots of looking around, more turns, more lane changes, and overall just a greater awareness of what's happening around you. When driving on FSD on city streets, you still need to keep that heightened awareness, so it's useless. Highway driving is just drudgery. Maintaining speed and a lane. AP removes the drudgery. Babysitting it just means making sure it doesn't suddenly decide to swerve or abruptly change speed, whereas babysitting FSD means doing the exact same checks for oncoming cars and traffic signals that the car is doing.
- ProxCoques 2y ago
  > Anyone treating FSD as anything more than an L3 in beta (i.e. not L3) is a fool. "I'm extremely confident that Tesla will have level five next year, extremely confident, 100%" Elon Musk, July 2020 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-springer-tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-spr...
rootusrootus 2y ago
I feel the same. I enjoyed the FSD trial but it confirmed that I was right not to pay any money for it. It drove me all the way home successfully on a route I thought for sure would require my intervention. That was cool. But then one day it randomly decided the bike lane was the correct lane. That was a funny feedback when it asked why I disengaged ... "You decided you are a bike but you are most definitely not." What's weird is that it was awful on the highway. I once rented a 2018 Model 3 with FSD before I bought my first Tesla, and it was delightful on the highway. It could switch lanes and everything. But the current FSD ... I tried to tell it to switch lanes, and it got halfway between the lanes and then changed it's mind. Didn't disengage, just sat there for a bit before deciding to wander back into the lane I started in. Another time, right after I engaged it, it decided to switch lanes (successfully this time, at least) but right in front of another car coming up on us. And there wasn't anybody in front of us to begin with. WTF. AP is fine. I'll keep that. Though I'd like to have the dumb cruise control available as an option, because sometimes the adaptive cruise is a bit psychotic.
ghaff 2y ago
I know people who like it but the expectations need to be totally different from the marketing. You're spending $10K or whatever for a better (in many cases) system that still requires you to pay attention in general. As MIT's James Leonard said almost 10 years ago now, he didn't expect to see a true self-driving system in his lifetime. Arguably it's getting closer in a few areas. But it's a fantasy that the typical teenager won't need to learn to drive in most places without significant compromises. And there's probably a component of people who have come to be feeling very betrayed because they're not getting a reasonably near-term future they thought they were promised.
strangattractor 2y ago
When Musk announces a pre-sale of tickets to Mars it might be a good idea to pass;)
- strangattractor 2y ago
  The "Dear Moon" project [1] promised to Yusaku Maezawa by Musk back in 2018 [2] was cancelled in 2023 because he just could not determine when SpaceX would deliver. So don't feel bad about your FSB purchase - it happens to the richest of us;) [1] https://dearmoon.earth/ https://dearmoon.earth/ [2] https://www.geekwire.com/2018/spacex-elon-musk-bfr-around-moon/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/spacex-elon-musk-bfr-around-mo...
qsdf38100 2y ago
In less than a year, you will be able to go from east coast to west during your sleep. That was said in 2016 IIRC. 8 years later we’re still waiting for it, and it’s not anywhere close. You are an enabler of this fraud. Great for you that you love it.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > In less than a year, you will be able to go from east coast to west during your sleep. That was said in 2016 IIRC. 8 years later we’re still waiting for it, and it’s not anywhere close. FWIW, I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now. Even ignoring needing to get out of the car to plug in, it can't park itself at a charger. It can barely navigate parking lots in general as evidenced by the terrible results of Smart Summon (which I did not try during my FSD trial because fuck that). > You are an enabler of this fraud. Great for you that you love it. I'm an enabler only in the sense that I bought a Tesla. I did not buy FSD. And if it's worth anything to you, while I do love my Model 3, I would not buy a Tesla today for reasons far beyond lies about FSD capability timelines.
  - qsdf38100 2y ago
    Fair, but I still don’t understand why someone would buy from a car from a company, while knowing they lie about the car capabilities and safety to their customers and shareholders.
nunez 2y ago
Yeah, I drove >4000 miles a few weeks ago, mostly on FSD. Wouldn't do it otherwise. It does dumb shit sometimes but it's a game changer and I won't buy a car that doesn't have autonomy as good as this. I bought it at full price twice (2020 and 2024) and don't regret either time.
nibs2 2y ago
[flagged]

ascorbic 2y ago

You chose wisely. I got FSD in 2019 and it was frankly terrifying.

jm4 2y ago

I am so bitter about my FSD purchase in 2019. At the time, there were some enhanced autopilot features and the rest was promised by the end of the year. I occasionally try it out and it's so bad. It feels completely unsafe. FSD has left such a bad taste that I almost never use even basic autopilot. I feel like I was conned out of $6000. I will never buy another Tesla as long as fraudster Elon is at the helm.

baggachipz 2y ago
I got mine for only $2000 and I feel conned. Nonstop empty promises, suddenly removed from the site as the date comes and goes. e.g., "Your car will be able to drop you off, park, and come get you by the end of the year. Really." That was two years ago at least.
- jm4 2y ago
  Remember that bullshit demo video where it drops the guy off in front of the office and parks itself? I don't understand how Elon isn't behind bars by now. How many staged demo videos have we seen? How many promises? These silly investor presentations where he makes wild claims? Robotaxis? The Cybertruck being built for Mars? It's one lie after another. The amounts by which he's inflated the company's value and his own net worth with his lies and scams dwarfs Bernie Madoff. He's lied to squeeze short sellers who are onto his bullshit. He ran that Dogecoin pump and dump. The scale and audacity of his schemes are truly epic.
  - baggachipz 2y ago
    It really helped me as an investor, which I am no longer. :) But yeah, I dumped it during the robotaxi """news""" knowing it's another pump. It's really a meme stock and personal piggy bank for Elon at this point. And I don't want to fund facism any longer. And you're right, how hasn't there an Elizabeth Holmes-like arrest?
  - taylodl 2y ago
    That's why Musk supports Trump. Two conmen cut from the same cloth.
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      It's the only logical explanation. Otherwise, Musk's hard-right turn just makes zero sense. People on the right generally don't want EVs, while the people on the left do. He alienated his largest potential customer base for what reason? FFS, Trump even said he'd ban EVs (Though we all know it won't actually happen) and Musk still supports him! I'm convinced Musk just doesn't care about Tesla anymore. Cybertruck release has been an utter disaster and he has no desire to make it right.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Anybody buying FSD is a fool Anyone treating FSD as anything more than an L3 in beta (i.e. not L3) is a fool. That still leaves plenty of safe-enough entertaining use. > if you have the babysit a self-driving feature, then it's entirely useless I don't think so. My Subaru has L2 lanekeeping functions. I absolutely have to babysit it. But it's fun. And it reduces the stress of driving. FSD is more stressful. But it's also more entertaining, and I don't think materially unsafe if it's being properly monitored.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Is entertainment value really a good goal for such a system? A key part of entertainment is typically surprise, and that's also normally a bad characteristic of a safety-critical system.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
I feel that simple lane-keeping is different. I mean, that's all Autopilot is: Traffic aware cruise control and automatic lane keeping. That's all it is. It does not navigate. It does not obey stop signs, traffic lights, etc. It won't even change lanes. Technically, yes, AP requires babysitting, but it's at an entirely different level from FSD on city streets. Highway driving requires less attention than city driving. You're mostly keeping eyes forward with the occasional check of your mirrors. City driving requires lots of looking around, more turns, more lane changes, and overall just a greater awareness of what's happening around you. When driving on FSD on city streets, you still need to keep that heightened awareness, so it's useless. Highway driving is just drudgery. Maintaining speed and a lane. AP removes the drudgery. Babysitting it just means making sure it doesn't suddenly decide to swerve or abruptly change speed, whereas babysitting FSD means doing the exact same checks for oncoming cars and traffic signals that the car is doing.
ProxCoques 2y ago
> Anyone treating FSD as anything more than an L3 in beta (i.e. not L3) is a fool. "I'm extremely confident that Tesla will have level five next year, extremely confident, 100%" Elon Musk, July 2020 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-springer-tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-spr...

rootusrootus 2y ago

I feel the same. I enjoyed the FSD trial but it confirmed that I was right not to pay any money for it. It drove me all the way home successfully on a route I thought for sure would require my intervention. That was cool. But then one day it randomly decided the bike lane was the correct lane. That was a funny feedback when it asked why I disengaged ... "You decided you are a bike but you are most definitely not." What's weird is that it was awful on the highway. I once rented a 2018 Model 3 with FSD before I bought my first Tesla, and it was delightful on the highway. It could switch lanes and everything. But the current FSD ... I tried to tell it to switch lanes, and it got halfway between the lanes and then changed it's mind. Didn't disengage, just sat there for a bit before deciding to wander back into the lane I started in. Another time, right after I engaged it, it decided to switch lanes (successfully this time, at least) but right in front of another car coming up on us. And there wasn't anybody in front of us to begin with. WTF. AP is fine. I'll keep that. Though I'd like to have the dumb cruise control available as an option, because sometimes the adaptive cruise is a bit psychotic.

ghaff 2y ago

I know people who like it but the expectations need to be totally different from the marketing. You're spending $10K or whatever for a better (in many cases) system that still requires you to pay attention in general. As MIT's James Leonard said almost 10 years ago now, he didn't expect to see a true self-driving system in his lifetime. Arguably it's getting closer in a few areas. But it's a fantasy that the typical teenager won't need to learn to drive in most places without significant compromises. And there's probably a component of people who have come to be feeling very betrayed because they're not getting a reasonably near-term future they thought they were promised.

strangattractor 2y ago

When Musk announces a pre-sale of tickets to Mars it might be a good idea to pass;)

strangattractor 2y ago
The "Dear Moon" project [1] promised to Yusaku Maezawa by Musk back in 2018 [2] was cancelled in 2023 because he just could not determine when SpaceX would deliver. So don't feel bad about your FSB purchase - it happens to the richest of us;) [1] https://dearmoon.earth/ https://dearmoon.earth/ [2] https://www.geekwire.com/2018/spacex-elon-musk-bfr-around-moon/ https://www.geekwire.com/2018/spacex-elon-musk-bfr-around-mo...

qsdf38100 2y ago

In less than a year, you will be able to go from east coast to west during your sleep. That was said in 2016 IIRC. 8 years later we’re still waiting for it, and it’s not anywhere close. You are an enabler of this fraud. Great for you that you love it.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
> In less than a year, you will be able to go from east coast to west during your sleep. That was said in 2016 IIRC. 8 years later we’re still waiting for it, and it’s not anywhere close. FWIW, I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now. Even ignoring needing to get out of the car to plug in, it can't park itself at a charger. It can barely navigate parking lots in general as evidenced by the terrible results of Smart Summon (which I did not try during my FSD trial because fuck that). > You are an enabler of this fraud. Great for you that you love it. I'm an enabler only in the sense that I bought a Tesla. I did not buy FSD. And if it's worth anything to you, while I do love my Model 3, I would not buy a Tesla today for reasons far beyond lies about FSD capability timelines.
- qsdf38100 2y ago
  Fair, but I still don’t understand why someone would buy from a car from a company, while knowing they lie about the car capabilities and safety to their customers and shareholders.

nunez 2y ago

Yeah, I drove >4000 miles a few weeks ago, mostly on FSD. Wouldn't do it otherwise. It does dumb shit sometimes but it's a game changer and I won't buy a car that doesn't have autonomy as good as this. I bought it at full price twice (2020 and 2024) and don't regret either time.

nibs2 2y ago

[flagged]