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Some credit reports that Durov travelled to Russia more than 60 times between 2014 and 2021. https://x.com/YaroslavAzhnyuk/status/1828498176854385111 https://x.

Some credit reports that Durov travelled to Russia more than 60 times between 2014 and 2021. https://x.com/YaroslavAzhnyuk/status/1828498176854385111 https://x.com/YaroslavAzhnyuk/status/1828498176854385111 Honest question for this group: Does anyone actually believe Telegram has any sort of privacy? Like, I assume all your TG data is available to the Kremlin in the same way that all your TikTok data is available to the CCP.

TremendousJudge 2y ago
I assume that the kremlin has more knowledge of the drug trade in my city than the local police
Zanfa 2y ago
I can’t comment on any specifics of his arrest, but it sure indicates they got the right person if Russian and Saudi governments start talking about freedoms and injustice.
- glandan 2y ago
  That is not certain. Russia has to say something and is exploiting the situation for propaganda. If it turns out that he was actually cooperating with the CIA, they'd happily give him the polonium treatment and claim France did it.
  - tokai 2y ago
    This. They utilize the firehose of falsehood method of communication. Talking points on every possible thing in all directions.
fngjdflmdflg 2y ago
IIRC he was basically kicked out of Russia for not censoring VK. Things could have changed but I don't think visits to Russia (where he has friends and family) is necessarily proof that he is giving data to Russia. Also, Telegram seems to have been banned in Russia at times, although I do not know the specific details.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Some of the specific details : https://istories.media/en/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-has-visited-russia-more-than-50-times-since-his-exile-in-2014/ https://istories.media/en/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-has-vi...
- diggan 2y ago
  > Also, Telegram seems to have been banned in Russia at times, although I do not know the specific details. Russia tried a bunch of times to block Russia (since it got banned for not cooperating with the government) but never successfully, seems Telegran anti-censorship methods works well enough. Eventually Russia relented and undid the ban and block. But I don't think Telegram actually stopped working in Russia at any point.
331c8c71 2y ago
His brother Nikolai who is a co-founder of Telegram and who is said to have developed the encryption protocol in Telegram lives in Russia according to some sources. His LinkedIn page indicates California as residence, however. BTW, Nikolai's wiki page states he won three gold medals at an International Mathematics Olympiad and once a gold International Olympiad in Informatics as well as a gold medal in the ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest. I'd say he is well qualified to design crypto algos if he put his mind to it.
- Krasnol 2y ago
  Why wouldn't he make it truly secure by hardening the most used features? They don't even seem to work on it. There is this optional encryption, but nobody seems to care about it. Simultaneously, they present themselves as safe and secure. He might be a genius. He might also be an evil genius.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > Why wouldn't he make it truly secure by hardening the most used features? E2E encryption comes with tradeoffs, it's not something you tack on to a protocol and not having to change a bunch of other stuff. I think one of the main selling point of Telegram is the public channels/huge groups where you can openly communicate with people, and tacking E2E encryption into those would probably involve a ton of work, not really sure how it would work (or what benefit it would bring)
    - Krasnol 2y ago
      > I think one of the main selling point of Telegram is the public channels/huge groups where you can openly communicate with people, There is nothing wrong with that. But why pretend to be secure and use that as a marketing claim?
  - golergka 2y ago
    Because most people want to have shared history, including in groups, including before they were added. And they also want to be able to recover a lost password, and not loose all their data if they forget it. And they want these things much more than protection from intelligence agencies. And may be I'm not a great at crypto, but I can't figure out a way of having all these features and still have end-to-end encryption.
golergka 2y ago
> Honest question for this group: Does anyone actually believe Telegram has any sort of privacy? Yes. Russian authorities obviously have access. But they only use this access sparingly. If you're not personally targeted by the FSB, you're OK, even Russian regular police doesn't have access to it.

TremendousJudge 2y ago

I assume that the kremlin has more knowledge of the drug trade in my city than the local police

Zanfa 2y ago

I can’t comment on any specifics of his arrest, but it sure indicates they got the right person if Russian and Saudi governments start talking about freedoms and injustice.

glandan 2y ago
That is not certain. Russia has to say something and is exploiting the situation for propaganda. If it turns out that he was actually cooperating with the CIA, they'd happily give him the polonium treatment and claim France did it.
- tokai 2y ago
  This. They utilize the firehose of falsehood method of communication. Talking points on every possible thing in all directions.

fngjdflmdflg 2y ago

IIRC he was basically kicked out of Russia for not censoring VK. Things could have changed but I don't think visits to Russia (where he has friends and family) is necessarily proof that he is giving data to Russia. Also, Telegram seems to have been banned in Russia at times, although I do not know the specific details.

BlueTemplar 2y ago
Some of the specific details : https://istories.media/en/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-has-visited-russia-more-than-50-times-since-his-exile-in-2014/ https://istories.media/en/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-has-vi...
diggan 2y ago
> Also, Telegram seems to have been banned in Russia at times, although I do not know the specific details. Russia tried a bunch of times to block Russia (since it got banned for not cooperating with the government) but never successfully, seems Telegran anti-censorship methods works well enough. Eventually Russia relented and undid the ban and block. But I don't think Telegram actually stopped working in Russia at any point.

331c8c71 2y ago

His brother Nikolai who is a co-founder of Telegram and who is said to have developed the encryption protocol in Telegram lives in Russia according to some sources. His LinkedIn page indicates California as residence, however. BTW, Nikolai's wiki page states he won three gold medals at an International Mathematics Olympiad and once a gold International Olympiad in Informatics as well as a gold medal in the ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest. I'd say he is well qualified to design crypto algos if he put his mind to it.

Krasnol 2y ago
Why wouldn't he make it truly secure by hardening the most used features? They don't even seem to work on it. There is this optional encryption, but nobody seems to care about it. Simultaneously, they present themselves as safe and secure. He might be a genius. He might also be an evil genius.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Why wouldn't he make it truly secure by hardening the most used features? E2E encryption comes with tradeoffs, it's not something you tack on to a protocol and not having to change a bunch of other stuff. I think one of the main selling point of Telegram is the public channels/huge groups where you can openly communicate with people, and tacking E2E encryption into those would probably involve a ton of work, not really sure how it would work (or what benefit it would bring)
  - Krasnol 2y ago
    > I think one of the main selling point of Telegram is the public channels/huge groups where you can openly communicate with people, There is nothing wrong with that. But why pretend to be secure and use that as a marketing claim?
- golergka 2y ago
  Because most people want to have shared history, including in groups, including before they were added. And they also want to be able to recover a lost password, and not loose all their data if they forget it. And they want these things much more than protection from intelligence agencies. And may be I'm not a great at crypto, but I can't figure out a way of having all these features and still have end-to-end encryption.

golergka 2y ago

> Honest question for this group: Does anyone actually believe Telegram has any sort of privacy? Yes. Russian authorities obviously have access. But they only use this access sparingly. If you're not personally targeted by the FSB, you're OK, even Russian regular police doesn't have access to it.