4 ms·
US appeals court rules geofence warrants are unconstitutional
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago15d ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630 It is still welcome (if surprising) news from the 5th circuit, especially following July's contradictory ruling from the 4th circuit. https://reason.com/volokh/2024/07/10/accessing-google-location-history-records-is-not-a-search-at-least-when-limited-fourth-circuit-rules/ https://reason.com/volokh/2024/07/10/accessing-google-locati...
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoOh, good, a circuit split! That means an appeal of one or the other case is at least somewhat likely to be accepted by the Supreme Court.
- rtkwe 2y agoNot the ideal court I'd like that split to go up to but that's not changing any time soon and maybe they'll surprise me in a good way this time.
- returningfory2 2y agoDo you think this Supreme Court is weak on the 4th amendment? I casually follow the court but don't really know their recent history on the 4th.
- rtkwe 2y agoI don't know their individual stances but ideologically their source is pretty staunchly in the pocket of allowing police access to data sources like this.
- LargeWu 2y agoI don't know that they're specifically friendly to police. If anything, they lately seem to be inclined to rein in what they view as government overreach. I would not be surprised at all to see them uphold this decision.
- Forgeties79 2y agoThey rein in the government calling it “overreach“ when it involves federal oversight. When it comes to LEO issues, however, they tend to side with LEO’s. The real test will be when they inevitably hear the Louisiana case about people filming police officers.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago> I don't know that they're specifically friendly to police. Throughout the last 5 decades: The SC have increased deference to LEO and established sweeping precedent that grants increasingly wider leeway by default. exs:Good Faith Exception, Qualified Immunity and Third Party Doctrine. This is the SC before the recent conservatizing. The flags flying indicate this won't be rolled back an inch.
- LargeWu 2y agoSotomayor and Thomas have both expressed disdain for qualified immunity. I think if the right case came before them we might see those protections narrowed.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago> Sotomayor and Thomas have both expressed disdain for qualified immunity. Thomas spends an inordinate amount of time signaling that; but then signaling is his thing. Is there a chart of his prize-winning showdog ideologies? Perhaps there's one that could conflict - that he might inject into a case because he does that. Sotomayor's previous day-job was to safeguard Gov abilities to abuse civil rights, to support and defend the desires of US LEO and IC agencies. While her SC decisions can run counter to that, I'm believe it's influence can be glimpsed. In a sort of backhanded way of affirming you, there are absolutely times that a justice can go against expectation. Sometimes a justice will put the actual welfare of individuals over whatever other factors drive them. I think it's too weak a peg to hang hopes of a QI overturn, however.
- delecti 2y agoThe 5th circuit is responsible for a lot of garbage rulings, which doesn't fill me with confidence in the quality of their reasoning. If the 5th is the lone circuit ruling this way, I'm not holding out much hope that the SCOTUS will side with it.
- bmelton 2y agoWith the additions of Gorsuch and Jackson, we have the most 4th amendment friendly court we've had in a long time. That said, it still looks like a 5-4 tossup, with a clustering that will likely confuse the media. I'd wager Gorsuch, Jackson, Sotomayor and Kagan as a bloc here with hopefully one more in either Roberts or (less likely) Kavanaugh.
- dang 2y agoThanks! That one is: Federal appeals court finds geofence warrants “categorically” unconstitutional - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630 - Aug 2024 (177 comments) Also related: Are Geofence Warrants Headed for Extinction? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41283215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41283215 - Aug 2024 (12 comments) Google moves to end geofence warrants - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38666317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38666317 - Dec 2023 (15 comments) Location history data in Google Maps will soon be stored on user devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38660646 - Dec 2023 (184 comments) How police use location/search data to find suspects - not always the right ones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37755785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37755785 - Oct 2023 (18 comments) Geofence Warrants and Reverse Keyword Warrants Are Invasive - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36307777 - June 2023 (9 comments) California Court of Appeal finds geofence warrant unconstitutional - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35723148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35723148 - April 2023 (41 comments) A Peek Inside the FBI’s Unprecedented January 6 Geofence Dragnet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33781084 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33781084 - Nov 2022 (10 comments) FBI used geofence warrant in Seattle after BLM protest attack, documents show - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30232353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30232353 - Feb 2022 (104 comments) Court Upholds “Geofence” Warrant for Information on Phones Near a Crime - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29725308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29725308 - Dec 2021 (8 comments) The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your location and search history - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28553778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28553778 - Sept 2021 (310 comments) Google says geofence warrants make up one-quarter of all US demands - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28266650 - Aug 2021 (259 comments) New Federal Court Rulings Find Geofence Warrants Unconstitutional - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24342049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24342049 - Sept 2020 (29 comments)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- alilleybrinker 2y agoOrin Kerr's analysis of this new ruling, which is linked from the Tech Crunch article, helps break down where the specific splits with other courts lie. This is useful even if you don't agree with Kerr's analysis of the validity of any specific courts' decisions: https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/13/fifth-circuit-shuts-down-geofence-warrants-and-maybe-a-lot-more/ https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/13/fifth-circuit-shuts-dow...
- pavon 2y agoThe follow-up article with ACLU's response is also interesting: https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/16/the-aclus-response-to-my-post-on-the-fifth-circuits-smith-ruling-and-my-reply-to-the-aclu/ https://reason.com/volokh/2024/08/16/the-aclus-response-to-m...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- BenFranklin100 2y agoIt’s interesting to note this decision in favor of privacy came from the 5th Circuit court, a predominantly conservative court. As the article notes, the 4th Circuit, made up largely of Democratic appointees, ruled in favor of the search warrants.
- beezlebroxxxxxx 2y agoLegal conservatism is somewhat different than Republican Conservatism in the same way that legal progressivism is somewhat different than Democratic Progressivism. The two might agree on certain issues in ways that seems contradictory at the political party level until you look into it more.
- whatshisface 2y agoAs much as anything I've conceived of that as the only example of separation of powers working to stir opposition to the sprint to unlimited power for the executive.
- mc32 2y agoDoes this have any impact on J6 and BLM riot cases?
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41228630