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I get paid six figures to fart in a chair and occasionally type. The idea that I'm more deserving than a dishwasher is insane. Of course I won't turn down the p

I get paid six figures to fart in a chair and occasionally type. The idea that I'm more deserving than a dishwasher is insane. Of course I won't turn down the paycheck, but the idea that $10 is anywhere in the ballpark of what the dishwasher deserves is delusional. Certainly they deserve the paycheck more than the vast majority of the people on this forum who get paid orders of magnitude more while doing barely any work (if that).

jonhohle 2y ago
Can you take a person off the street and have them washing dishes competently by this afternoon? Can you take a person off the street and have them doing your job competently by this afternoon? The fable of the plumber captures the essence of this.
- immibis 2y ago
  I literally did this. At the end of Chaos Communication Camp last year I had no reason to immediately leave, so I went to see if they needed some extra help and ended up drying and stacking dishes for an hour.
  - darby_nine 2y ago
    I hope you realize this mostly just reveals you have no clue how hard and skill-intensive kitchen work is. Yes, even dishwashing. The average person is not going to be able to drop into a kitchen and wash thousands of dishes a night.
    - immibis 2y ago
      They are, but it's exhausting. I thought the complaint was that it required skills and training, not that it was exhausting?
    - infecto 2y ago
      I have work lots in kitchen. Your post just shows you’re full of it. We have hired people off the street to wash dishes. Yeah of course people quit on the first day sometimes. Same goes for working other entry level jobs.
FredPret 2y ago
Where do you get this idea? What generates more value - a good thought that can steer a product or a company in a better direction, or a pile of clean dishes? Value is disconnected to the difficulty involved in producing it. In fact, this is a key part of the free market. Precisely because it's easy for people who can do your job to produce a ton of value and hard for dishwashers to do the same, the market tries to push as many people as possible away from dishwashing and towards whatever it is that you do. The next thing to keep in mind is - if we trained up all the dishwashers, could they do your job? Perhaps we'll find your job is not that easy after all.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  > What generates more value - a good thought that can steer a product or a company in a better direction, or a pile of clean dishes? The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless without workers to actually provide value people want to pay for. > Value is disconnected to the difficulty involved in producing it. Human labor is the source of all value. If you're handing over money, it's because you're paying someone for the work they've done in some way. > In fact, this is a key part of the free market. Precisely because it's easy for people who can do your job to produce a ton of value and hard for dishwashers to do the same, the market tries to push as many people as possible away from dishwashing and towards whatever it is that you do. Yes, it's a lovely fantasy—but the real world doesn't work like that. The reason why I'm paid a lot isn't because I produce "value", it's because I'm really good at convincing rich people to pay me. The "free market" is just sucking off rich people with bad taste. > Where do you get this idea? Read Capital and get back to me. We need to open the schools!
  - FredPret 2y ago
    I'm quite disappointed that you're willing to lift your ideas wholesale from a French communist [0] unless of course by "Capital" you mean "Das Kapital" in which case it's the original, German one [1]. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and read up on the theory of people who disagree with you. Specifically: > The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless without workers to actually provide value people want to pay for. Improving the work of 100 people by 1% is worth a hell of a lot more than a clean dish, no matter how society is organized. > Human labor is the source of all value. If you're handing over money, it's because you're paying someone for the work they've done in some way. I fully agree. But to say all labor is alike is wrong. Some labor is worth more. That doesn't mean the people doing it are better people. Their work is just higher quality / on a larger scale / better / faster / in the right place / at the right time / all of the above. > The reason why I'm paid a lot isn't because I produce "value", it's because I'm really good at convincing rich people to pay me. True, but they won't stay rich unless you make them much more money than they pay you. Do they stay rich? (Interestingly, the restaurant industry is notorious for ruining unsophisticated investors) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

jonhohle 2y ago

Can you take a person off the street and have them washing dishes competently by this afternoon? Can you take a person off the street and have them doing your job competently by this afternoon? The fable of the plumber captures the essence of this.

immibis 2y ago
I literally did this. At the end of Chaos Communication Camp last year I had no reason to immediately leave, so I went to see if they needed some extra help and ended up drying and stacking dishes for an hour.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  I hope you realize this mostly just reveals you have no clue how hard and skill-intensive kitchen work is. Yes, even dishwashing. The average person is not going to be able to drop into a kitchen and wash thousands of dishes a night.
  - immibis 2y ago
    They are, but it's exhausting. I thought the complaint was that it required skills and training, not that it was exhausting?
  - infecto 2y ago
    I have work lots in kitchen. Your post just shows you’re full of it. We have hired people off the street to wash dishes. Yeah of course people quit on the first day sometimes. Same goes for working other entry level jobs.

FredPret 2y ago

Where do you get this idea? What generates more value - a good thought that can steer a product or a company in a better direction, or a pile of clean dishes? Value is disconnected to the difficulty involved in producing it. In fact, this is a key part of the free market. Precisely because it's easy for people who can do your job to produce a ton of value and hard for dishwashers to do the same, the market tries to push as many people as possible away from dishwashing and towards whatever it is that you do. The next thing to keep in mind is - if we trained up all the dishwashers, could they do your job? Perhaps we'll find your job is not that easy after all.

darby_nine 2y ago
> What generates more value - a good thought that can steer a product or a company in a better direction, or a pile of clean dishes? The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless without workers to actually provide value people want to pay for. > Value is disconnected to the difficulty involved in producing it. Human labor is the source of all value. If you're handing over money, it's because you're paying someone for the work they've done in some way. > In fact, this is a key part of the free market. Precisely because it's easy for people who can do your job to produce a ton of value and hard for dishwashers to do the same, the market tries to push as many people as possible away from dishwashing and towards whatever it is that you do. Yes, it's a lovely fantasy—but the real world doesn't work like that. The reason why I'm paid a lot isn't because I produce "value", it's because I'm really good at convincing rich people to pay me. The "free market" is just sucking off rich people with bad taste. > Where do you get this idea? Read Capital and get back to me. We need to open the schools!
- FredPret 2y ago
  I'm quite disappointed that you're willing to lift your ideas wholesale from a French communist [0] unless of course by "Capital" you mean "Das Kapital" in which case it's the original, German one [1]. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and read up on the theory of people who disagree with you. Specifically: > The dish, obviously. A company (or a product) is an abstract concept that is largely meaningless without workers to actually provide value people want to pay for. Improving the work of 100 people by 1% is worth a hell of a lot more than a clean dish, no matter how society is organized. > Human labor is the source of all value. If you're handing over money, it's because you're paying someone for the work they've done in some way. I fully agree. But to say all labor is alike is wrong. Some labor is worth more. That doesn't mean the people doing it are better people. Their work is just higher quality / on a larger scale / better / faster / in the right place / at the right time / all of the above. > The reason why I'm paid a lot isn't because I produce "value", it's because I'm really good at convincing rich people to pay me. True, but they won't stay rich unless you make them much more money than they pay you. Do they stay rich? (Interestingly, the restaurant industry is notorious for ruining unsophisticated investors) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Piketty [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx