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> I think wokeism as a social-historical trend subdued our collective inner rebellious spirit. Maybe not the inner spirit, but it has definitely changed social

> I think wokeism as a social-historical trend subdued our collective inner rebellious spirit. Maybe not the inner spirit, but it has definitely changed social dynamics. Hopefully, with the current pullback to basedness, we’ll see a return to subversivenes. This confused political aside hurts my soul, and gives the rest of the piece a super villain origin vibe. We're seriously letting our young men down by letting this kind of thing fester.

Fredkin 2y ago
Apart from it admittedly seeming out of place, what is the problem with this comment? Any ideology has the potential to become too oppressive and thought-ending and there are definitely examples of the prevailing culture going this way, especially in universities and corporate culture. I'm no Marxist, but 'wokeism' clearly distracts people from class, instead focusing on gender, race and safety, and that's why it has been embraced by HR departments everywhere; it just doesn't threaten the c-suite and shareholders like 'traditional' class divide rhetoric did. And with that last line are you implying you want his thoughts policed? ... to subdue his rebellious spirit? This will surely backfire.
- teg4n_ 2y ago
  “wokeism” isn’t a defined thing, that’s why it’s off putting, it’s just a boogeyman pushed by conservative politicians and media. Even when you ask what they mean by it it ends up being applied to basically anything they don’t like.
  - Fredkin 2y ago
    To most it's a blunt shorthand for radical progressivism to the point of an obsessive panic about who's the biggest victim and the biggest victimizer. It typically points to somebody who holds an ensemble of ideas surrounding race, gender, diversity, feminism, safety, sometimes mental health, disability, obesity etc with particular emphasis on performative acts of policing the language people use to refer to groups of people. The terms 'whiteness', 'white privilege', 'diversity', 'social justice', 'equity', 'equality' are poorly defined too, and mean different things depending on who you ask. Our language is full of these poorly defined umbrella terms. But I know what to expect when I hear somebody described as 'woke'. In fact you use 'conservative' this way in your comment, but conservatism encompasses a very broad range of thought too.
    - teg4n_ 2y ago
      Most people don’t even say woke at all because most people don’t talk with political shibboleths specifically and consciously pushed as a scare tactic for critical race theory. I expect the more neutral term would be “political correctness” and using it doesn’t make you sound like you watch too much fox news.
thelastparadise 2y ago
> This confused political aside hurts my soul, and gives the rest of the piece a super villain origin vibe. Maybe instead of looking down on him through your nose, try considering why so many people are feeling this way. Have the incentives of the system changed? Are these people visible and valued in society? If not, why not. Can you live without their labor supporting society?
clejack 2y ago
Are you sure you're speaking the same language? Recently two friends of mine were speaking and one of them said "it's too woke now" in reference to something in media. While his words were not explicit, I understood that he was speaking about the tendency of certain media to insert dialogue or scenes that reference the current liberal social zeitgeist in a meaningless way. He was ultimately saying something like "it's annoying, but in a specifically liberal way." The other friend said "Dude come on. Don't say that. Therein lies the path of darkness." I suspect you and my second friend look at the pejorative use of woke as a conservative dog whistle. This conservative whistle warns us of anything related to non-white social issues and non-male gender issues, and it marks these topics as bad. I tend to agree with my first friend and use the word as he did. I use it to describe situations in which liberal ideals on social issues are being raised, but there's no actual meaningful action or thought involved. It's just a tool to bludgeon people with. "You can't say that. You're bad." "You can't think that. You're bad." What does it mean to you exactly? What do you feel is festering? If we're letting young men down, I think it's by assuming that they are too stupid to form an opinion and too terrible to not be intrinsically wicked. You see a super villain origin. I see an opportunity to ask the author "what do you mean by woke?" Given the tone of the article, I suspect he has yet another definition. Probably something related to the suppression of the edginess and dark humor associated with "weird people."

Fredkin 2y ago

Apart from it admittedly seeming out of place, what is the problem with this comment? Any ideology has the potential to become too oppressive and thought-ending and there are definitely examples of the prevailing culture going this way, especially in universities and corporate culture. I'm no Marxist, but 'wokeism' clearly distracts people from class, instead focusing on gender, race and safety, and that's why it has been embraced by HR departments everywhere; it just doesn't threaten the c-suite and shareholders like 'traditional' class divide rhetoric did. And with that last line are you implying you want his thoughts policed? ... to subdue his rebellious spirit? This will surely backfire.

teg4n_ 2y ago
“wokeism” isn’t a defined thing, that’s why it’s off putting, it’s just a boogeyman pushed by conservative politicians and media. Even when you ask what they mean by it it ends up being applied to basically anything they don’t like.
- Fredkin 2y ago
  To most it's a blunt shorthand for radical progressivism to the point of an obsessive panic about who's the biggest victim and the biggest victimizer. It typically points to somebody who holds an ensemble of ideas surrounding race, gender, diversity, feminism, safety, sometimes mental health, disability, obesity etc with particular emphasis on performative acts of policing the language people use to refer to groups of people. The terms 'whiteness', 'white privilege', 'diversity', 'social justice', 'equity', 'equality' are poorly defined too, and mean different things depending on who you ask. Our language is full of these poorly defined umbrella terms. But I know what to expect when I hear somebody described as 'woke'. In fact you use 'conservative' this way in your comment, but conservatism encompasses a very broad range of thought too.
  - teg4n_ 2y ago
    Most people don’t even say woke at all because most people don’t talk with political shibboleths specifically and consciously pushed as a scare tactic for critical race theory. I expect the more neutral term would be “political correctness” and using it doesn’t make you sound like you watch too much fox news.

thelastparadise 2y ago

> This confused political aside hurts my soul, and gives the rest of the piece a super villain origin vibe. Maybe instead of looking down on him through your nose, try considering why so many people are feeling this way. Have the incentives of the system changed? Are these people visible and valued in society? If not, why not. Can you live without their labor supporting society?

clejack 2y ago

Are you sure you're speaking the same language? Recently two friends of mine were speaking and one of them said "it's too woke now" in reference to something in media. While his words were not explicit, I understood that he was speaking about the tendency of certain media to insert dialogue or scenes that reference the current liberal social zeitgeist in a meaningless way. He was ultimately saying something like "it's annoying, but in a specifically liberal way." The other friend said "Dude come on. Don't say that. Therein lies the path of darkness." I suspect you and my second friend look at the pejorative use of woke as a conservative dog whistle. This conservative whistle warns us of anything related to non-white social issues and non-male gender issues, and it marks these topics as bad. I tend to agree with my first friend and use the word as he did. I use it to describe situations in which liberal ideals on social issues are being raised, but there's no actual meaningful action or thought involved. It's just a tool to bludgeon people with. "You can't say that. You're bad." "You can't think that. You're bad." What does it mean to you exactly? What do you feel is festering? If we're letting young men down, I think it's by assuming that they are too stupid to form an opinion and too terrible to not be intrinsically wicked. You see a super villain origin. I see an opportunity to ask the author "what do you mean by woke?" Given the tone of the article, I suspect he has yet another definition. Probably something related to the suppression of the edginess and dark humor associated with "weird people."