3 ms·

It can be solved at continental-level. Germany already sells part of its overproduction (wind, solar...) to Austria and Switzerland, to have it stored by their

It can be solved at continental-level. Germany already sells part of its overproduction (wind, solar...) to Austria and Switzerland, to have it stored by their dams.

chickenbig 2y ago
> It can be solved at continental-level. Whatever happened to the notion of local/decentralised energy? Plus it relies on countries at both ends wanting the interconnection. Sweden and Norway are not so happy about other countries taking their hydro energy when it suits the market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorthConnect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorthConnect https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swedish-government-says-no-new-power-cable-germany-2024-06-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swedish-government-s...
- natmaka 2y ago
  > local/decentralised energy When it comes to gridpower working at continental-level is, and for quite a while, the best way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Network_of_Transmission_System_Operators_for_Electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Network_of_Transmissi... > relies on countries at both ends wanting the interconnection Exactly as, right now, each and every country in the continental grid sometimes starts a production unit in order to help a neighbor in need. Everyone gains by playing according to this rule. > taking their hydro energy Because, right now, the system is far from being complete: not enough production units deployed on the continent, interconnections, lines, storage... This transition, a huge ordeal, is in progress.
  - chickenbig 2y ago
    > working at continental-level is, and for quite a while, the best way The larger the interconnection the bigger the failure domain. See also https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clocks-lose-six-minutes-dispute-power-electricity-grid https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clock... which shows that power is political. > help a neighbor in need. Everyone gains by playing according to this rule. Not so for Norway, where electrical prices have gone up as a result of all of these inter-connectors and a drought. Norwegian people and businesses have lost out. Politicians have taken note. https://watt-logic.com/2022/11/22/norway-energy-security/ https://watt-logic.com/2022/11/22/norway-energy-security/
    - natmaka 2y ago
      > The larger the interconnection the bigger the failure domain True, however we have to consider the chances of a given proportion of the grid to fail: a more spread-out and heterogeneous (wind, solar...) fleet of production units is way more robust. > power is political True, however such incidents are rare (this one dates back from 2018) and their extent more and more reduced as grid-control devices and backup plants are continually enhanced. As already shown there is no way for nearly all nations to ever hope to obtain an autonomous grid, and even those able to plan on this will obtain a less-robust and more expensive grid. Team play is becomes more and more mandatory and efficient, on all accounts, and bad players may lose the support of the biggest group. > electrical prices have gone up Yes, because there now are not enough ways to store, causing some over-pressure on existing ones. Storing in order to sustain the grid when production isn't sufficient only makes sense if we store overproduction, and overproduction remains rare (esp. at continental-level) because way too few renewable are producing. We reached the very first step: more and more overproduced renewable electricity, which triggers investments towards the next step: massive storage. V2G is a major contender.

It can be solved at continental-level. Germany already sells part of its overproduction (wind, solar...) to Austria and Switzerland, to have it stored by their dams.

chickenbig 2y ago

> It can be solved at continental-level. Whatever happened to the notion of local/decentralised energy? Plus it relies on countries at both ends wanting the interconnection. Sweden and Norway are not so happy about other countries taking their hydro energy when it suits the market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorthConnect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorthConnect https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swedish-government-says-no-new-power-cable-germany-2024-06-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swedish-government-s...

natmaka 2y ago
> local/decentralised energy When it comes to gridpower working at continental-level is, and for quite a while, the best way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Network_of_Transmission_System_Operators_for_Electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Network_of_Transmissi... > relies on countries at both ends wanting the interconnection Exactly as, right now, each and every country in the continental grid sometimes starts a production unit in order to help a neighbor in need. Everyone gains by playing according to this rule. > taking their hydro energy Because, right now, the system is far from being complete: not enough production units deployed on the continent, interconnections, lines, storage... This transition, a huge ordeal, is in progress.
- chickenbig 2y ago
  > working at continental-level is, and for quite a while, the best way The larger the interconnection the bigger the failure domain. See also https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clocks-lose-six-minutes-dispute-power-electricity-grid https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/08/european-clock... which shows that power is political. > help a neighbor in need. Everyone gains by playing according to this rule. Not so for Norway, where electrical prices have gone up as a result of all of these inter-connectors and a drought. Norwegian people and businesses have lost out. Politicians have taken note. https://watt-logic.com/2022/11/22/norway-energy-security/ https://watt-logic.com/2022/11/22/norway-energy-security/
  - natmaka 2y ago
    > The larger the interconnection the bigger the failure domain True, however we have to consider the chances of a given proportion of the grid to fail: a more spread-out and heterogeneous (wind, solar...) fleet of production units is way more robust. > power is political True, however such incidents are rare (this one dates back from 2018) and their extent more and more reduced as grid-control devices and backup plants are continually enhanced. As already shown there is no way for nearly all nations to ever hope to obtain an autonomous grid, and even those able to plan on this will obtain a less-robust and more expensive grid. Team play is becomes more and more mandatory and efficient, on all accounts, and bad players may lose the support of the biggest group. > electrical prices have gone up Yes, because there now are not enough ways to store, causing some over-pressure on existing ones. Storing in order to sustain the grid when production isn't sufficient only makes sense if we store overproduction, and overproduction remains rare (esp. at continental-level) because way too few renewable are producing. We reached the very first step: more and more overproduced renewable electricity, which triggers investments towards the next step: massive storage. V2G is a major contender.