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Starlink provided free internet services to Ukraine when Russia invaded but later on asked for payment. Elon has a history of cancelling orders for Teslas if p

Starlink provided free internet services to Ukraine when Russia invaded but later on asked for payment. Elon has a history of cancelling orders for Teslas if people criticise him. I feel like Starlink isn't the sort of company the world should rely on for a safety critical service, free or not.

aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
thedrake 2y ago
The current option is near nothing unless you have a specific plan. Not sure how this would not be better than that.
- 3np 2y ago
  It certainly is better to know that you can not actually rely on Starlink for emergency services access in the long-term vs discovering it the moment you actually need it.
- olliej 2y ago
  You’re missing the point. Musk has a track record of offering services to remove competitors and then reneging on that once it’s no longer necessary. (Similar to the hyperloop: the whole purpose was to divert funding from public transit programs not produce anything actually useful) Adopting a “free” starlink service that later becomes $$$ only once there’s no alternative is overtly worse than the current state.
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    The "free" Starlink service is calling 911. It is expected that mobile provider offers 911 service to everyone. Starlink, in partnership with T-Mobile and others, will be offering service with messages and voice but no data. I don't think pricing has been announced, or if going to be add-on or free extra. My guess is that it will be cheap cause it isn't much demand, the emergency is the important part. Also, there are multiple companies working on LTE from satellites. They are at disadvantage cause can't piggyback on lots of low satellite. But might be able to work with fewer, higher satellite. They might be able to partner with other providers.
    - olliej 2y ago
      > The "free" Starlink service is calling 911. It is expected that mobile provider offers 911 service to everyone What? No one is saying "they'll charge for 911" they're saying - the satellite connection is what costs money. The concern is that they're offering that connection for free now, because it means to be competitive, every other service must provide that service for free. How are they going to do that when the service costs money? They cannot - so spacex leverages its income from other industries (and government subsidies) to fund a service below operating costs until the competitors are gone. At that point they can introduce pricing, and there is no alternative or competition, so they can charge much more than the actual cost. This is not a new or novel concept, and is a historically common anticompetitive practice. Given Musk's prior behavior, it is sensible to assume any claims or promises are at best misleading, and it is not unreasonable to assume intentional malice.
      - admdly 2y ago
        Unrelated, but frankly there should be no publicly accessible network that won’t route a “911”/emergency transmission.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
modeless 2y ago
"The world" didn't "rely" on SpaceX to build this. SpaceX built this service on their own initiative and with their own funding and now they're giving away its most life critical function for free (unlike incumbent satphone companies who have always charged for 911 service). Plenty of competitors are working to replicate Starlink, including private companies, governments, and militaries. SpaceX is even launching some of the satellites for them. It's hardly SpaceX's fault that everyone else is so far behind. On Ukraine, SpaceX asked the US DoD to fund the substantial costs which is eminently reasonable given the criticality of Starlink to the war effort and the billions upon billions in contracts other US defense contractors were getting to support the war. SpaceX never shut off Ukraine's service despite misinformation to the contrary. As for Elon, he canceled one customer's $100k car order 8 years ago and because of that you believe he would leave people to die when they need emergency help?
- caseyy 2y ago
  Once something "free" is offered, it often pushes out paid or costly options. And it's not uncommon that this leads to a severe decline in quality. We've seen it in print media, social networks, streaming services, and many other industries. For example, we no longer have popular high-quality almanacs, and high-quality magazines at a premium price are nearly extinct. We now have a lot of "free" garbage online instead. Similarly, social networks, which are free to use, have upset the social fabric and displaced genuine deep relationships which cost money and effort to maintain. And what percentage of movies these days release on high-bitrate media? Most of us don't have access to film without blocky compression. It's pretty clear Elon didn't think this through. There are very large risks (on the scale of his AI fears). If this service becomes widespread, regional and national governments may no longer mandate that certain areas are provided cell services for by telecoms. Or if there are faults in that system, they may delay repairs. This is all well and good while SpaceX continues to operate, but what if it goes bankrupt and the world has moved on? How many will die? Or what if Elon has another tech bro moment and decides some region doesn't deserve this service? We know he has sometimes acted very unjustly to others, including making a decision in the Ukrainian conflict to not provide service[0]. He may be right or wrong on that decision, I won't judge. But it is clear he is inserting himself into situations he has no expertise in, and is known for casting harsh rushed judgements[1]. I think he should do it — it's quite heroic what he wants to do, but he needs to think about the consequences. Maybe the calls should always be available, but there should be a fee associated with them later, so that a cheaper local option remains relevant? I don't have the answers but I think 15 minutes of thinking surfaces so many concerns that it really does demand an impact study rather than one man making a tweet/xit. And we haven't even spoken about potential misuse. [0] https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/09/14/musk-internet-access-crimea-ukraine/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/09/14/musk-internet-access-... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk...

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

thedrake 2y ago

The current option is near nothing unless you have a specific plan. Not sure how this would not be better than that.

3np 2y ago
It certainly is better to know that you can not actually rely on Starlink for emergency services access in the long-term vs discovering it the moment you actually need it.
olliej 2y ago
You’re missing the point. Musk has a track record of offering services to remove competitors and then reneging on that once it’s no longer necessary. (Similar to the hyperloop: the whole purpose was to divert funding from public transit programs not produce anything actually useful) Adopting a “free” starlink service that later becomes $$$ only once there’s no alternative is overtly worse than the current state.
- ianburrell 2y ago
  The "free" Starlink service is calling 911. It is expected that mobile provider offers 911 service to everyone. Starlink, in partnership with T-Mobile and others, will be offering service with messages and voice but no data. I don't think pricing has been announced, or if going to be add-on or free extra. My guess is that it will be cheap cause it isn't much demand, the emergency is the important part. Also, there are multiple companies working on LTE from satellites. They are at disadvantage cause can't piggyback on lots of low satellite. But might be able to work with fewer, higher satellite. They might be able to partner with other providers.
  - olliej 2y ago
    > The "free" Starlink service is calling 911. It is expected that mobile provider offers 911 service to everyone What? No one is saying "they'll charge for 911" they're saying - the satellite connection is what costs money. The concern is that they're offering that connection for free now, because it means to be competitive, every other service must provide that service for free. How are they going to do that when the service costs money? They cannot - so spacex leverages its income from other industries (and government subsidies) to fund a service below operating costs until the competitors are gone. At that point they can introduce pricing, and there is no alternative or competition, so they can charge much more than the actual cost. This is not a new or novel concept, and is a historically common anticompetitive practice. Given Musk's prior behavior, it is sensible to assume any claims or promises are at best misleading, and it is not unreasonable to assume intentional malice.
    - admdly 2y ago
      Unrelated, but frankly there should be no publicly accessible network that won’t route a “911”/emergency transmission.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

modeless 2y ago

"The world" didn't "rely" on SpaceX to build this. SpaceX built this service on their own initiative and with their own funding and now they're giving away its most life critical function for free (unlike incumbent satphone companies who have always charged for 911 service). Plenty of competitors are working to replicate Starlink, including private companies, governments, and militaries. SpaceX is even launching some of the satellites for them. It's hardly SpaceX's fault that everyone else is so far behind. On Ukraine, SpaceX asked the US DoD to fund the substantial costs which is eminently reasonable given the criticality of Starlink to the war effort and the billions upon billions in contracts other US defense contractors were getting to support the war. SpaceX never shut off Ukraine's service despite misinformation to the contrary. As for Elon, he canceled one customer's $100k car order 8 years ago and because of that you believe he would leave people to die when they need emergency help?

caseyy 2y ago
Once something "free" is offered, it often pushes out paid or costly options. And it's not uncommon that this leads to a severe decline in quality. We've seen it in print media, social networks, streaming services, and many other industries. For example, we no longer have popular high-quality almanacs, and high-quality magazines at a premium price are nearly extinct. We now have a lot of "free" garbage online instead. Similarly, social networks, which are free to use, have upset the social fabric and displaced genuine deep relationships which cost money and effort to maintain. And what percentage of movies these days release on high-bitrate media? Most of us don't have access to film without blocky compression. It's pretty clear Elon didn't think this through. There are very large risks (on the scale of his AI fears). If this service becomes widespread, regional and national governments may no longer mandate that certain areas are provided cell services for by telecoms. Or if there are faults in that system, they may delay repairs. This is all well and good while SpaceX continues to operate, but what if it goes bankrupt and the world has moved on? How many will die? Or what if Elon has another tech bro moment and decides some region doesn't deserve this service? We know he has sometimes acted very unjustly to others, including making a decision in the Ukrainian conflict to not provide service[0]. He may be right or wrong on that decision, I won't judge. But it is clear he is inserting himself into situations he has no expertise in, and is known for casting harsh rushed judgements[1]. I think he should do it — it's quite heroic what he wants to do, but he needs to think about the consequences. Maybe the calls should always be available, but there should be a fee associated with them later, so that a cheaper local option remains relevant? I don't have the answers but I think 15 minutes of thinking surfaces so many concerns that it really does demand an impact study rather than one man making a tweet/xit. And we haven't even spoken about potential misuse. [0] https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/09/14/musk-internet-access-crimea-ukraine/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/09/14/musk-internet-access-... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk...